Matt J wrote:... having failings doesn't mean that one is not an accomplished teacher. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Or in plain sight.
kirtu wrote:Why? Because realization itself, even minor realization, keeps one from committing egregious, harmful acts. Minor realization itself (so kensho) is powerful enough to not exactly prevent this but dampens it in a way. So after a person commits a bad act their conscious is activated acutely and they are unlikely to do so again anytime soon. Overtime, realization builds and those bad acts have to diminish and stop.
Matt J wrote:Baizhang's Wild Fox koan suggests that it is not so simple as yes or no.
Matt J wrote:Unfortunately, Zen practice tends to accept things as they are rather than as we wish them to be. Zen teachers don't fart sunshine and urinate rainbows, either. Being an accomplished teacher doesn't mean that one is a sinless, Christ-like figure. And having failings doesn't mean that one is not an accomplished teacher. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.dzogchungpa wrote:Well, as I said, Nonin is just too subtle for me, but he seems to be saying that one can be an "accomplished Zen Buddhist teacher" and still be as contemptible as Sasaki, and I just can't accept that.
jeeprs wrote:I had the idea that in traditional Buddhism, criticizing Buddhist teachers was generally a pretty grave breach of etiquette. I think certainly ideas can be challenged and debated, but I don't think that personal belittlement serves much purpose.
Trembling with fright, like donkeys on an icy path, [you say to yourselves,] ‘I don’t dare disparage these good teachers for fear of making karma with my mouth!’
Followers of the Way, it is only a great teacher who dares to disparage the buddhas, dares to disparage the patriarchs, to determine the right and the wrong of the world, to reject the teachings of the Tripiṭaka, to revile all infantile fellows, and to look for a Person amidst fortunate and unfortunate circumstances.
Therefore, when I look back over the past twelve years for a single thing having the nature of karma, I can’t find anything even the size of a mustard seed. The Chan master who is like a new bride will fear lest he be thrown out of his temple, be given no food to eat, and have no contentment and ease. From olden days our predecessors never had people anywhere who believed in them. Only aft er they had been driven out was their worth recognized. If they had been fully accepted by people everywhere, what would they have been good for? Therefore it is said, ‘The lion’s single roar splits the jackals’ skulls.’
Astus wrote:Lin Chi wrote:it is only a great teacher who dares to disparage the buddhas, dares to disparage the patriarchs, to determine the right and the wrong of the world, to reject the teachings of the Tripiṭaka, to revile all infantile fellows, and to look for a Person amidst fortunate and unfortunate circumstances.
jeeprs wrote:or given 'openheartedly' for that matter. Some might have been.
jeeprs wrote:I was referring more to the kind of 'hey Zen is just infantile role-playing and projection on to authority figures' - that kind of comment.
But what I don't get is, if you think that the ceremonial and liturgical structures are irrelevant, out of date, why bother commenting?
I don't hang around UFO enthusiast forums saying 'hey UFOs are just projections, you know.' It would be a waste of everyone's time.
Users browsing this forum: Alex123 and 13 guests