Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

zAnt
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby zAnt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:10 pm


shel
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby shel » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:24 pm


zAnt
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby zAnt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:52 pm


DGA
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby DGA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:02 pm

Hi zAnt,

I think there's a lot more common ground between you and I than it might seem at first blush. My point in the first post and in subsequent comments (some of which I did not word very skillfully) was to encourage civil discourse among everyone with a stake in this. I think Buddhists should listen to non-Buddhists. I think Vajrayana people should listen to Zen people. Students of X master should be willing to listen to students of Y master, and vice versa. I'm trying to advocate for pluralism, and against sectarianism and arrogance and attachment to views. Whether I've done this effectively nor not is totally debatable. Judging by the content of the thread, I'd say I've not done such a good job of it so far.

I'm also trying to weed out the leftover sectarianism and snobbishness I find in myself.

That's all. I'm not insisting that anyone listen to me personally, or to anyone else in particular. I just want people to take each other's perspectives seriously, regardless of what tradition they seem (to you) to represent.

I wish you great friendship and great happiness in your practice.

zAnt
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby zAnt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:07 pm


DGA
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby DGA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:11 pm

:cheers:

no probalo mate

Simon E.
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby Simon E. » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:45 pm

Well that has done my heart good.

:namaste: :namaste:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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conebeckham
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby conebeckham » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:46 pm

Me, too! :smile:

And for the record--yeah, I was a bit snippy with the "Seriously?" comment. My apologies, zAnt....I could have handled that better.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

zAnt
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby zAnt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:00 pm

I could have to, I feel as a fool for what I have said.

DGA
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby DGA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:10 pm

You're not a fool zAnt.

We're all human here...

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Shii
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby Shii » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:53 am

Jikan~

Ah, well I will not presume to tell you how you feel. They are, after all, your emotions. However they do play an important role in what you are trying to get across. As someone once said, who was more familiar with politics, and therefore experienced in the art of communication, A spoonful of honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar.

When Buddha Shakyamuni observed these things it was direct criticism. It was voiced with compassion, with the intent to help others help themselves. He was motivated not out of anger but of a deep compassion, love and a great grief. When you see the cause of suffering in someone from a place of stillness you may feel anger but when you look deeper you will find it is really love and a wish that the person could do better. Then if you look deeper into that you will find that if that person knew how to do better they would. All beings do the best they know how to do with all of there greed, anger, and delusion. So no I do not think it was any sort of bullying. I am also saying criticism is not a bad thing. However, it is important in the way one uses it and for what purpose.

Ananda was asking advise of his spiritual teacher. A teacher instructing a student with the perfect tool for the job at the time does not give license for everyone to criticize each other. Especially when the person doing the criticizing is not the teacher of the one being criticized.

Uan~

Lol! yes ;)


Conebackham~

Oh no it's not impossible to see from a different perspective, to walk in another's shoes. You do need an open mind though.

So you are saying that I said belief = truth. No I apologize I meant truth = belief. Is it not possible that perhaps it is actually true that you can not understand something in the group without being part of it? Meaning the truth of what they believe can not be known unless you are within the group to know. Now this above is under the assumption that this truth is real and not twisted in some way. But, if the truth is more of a "truth" then you are right. They should look at it and think on it deeply. However as I said if anyone wants to gain any real ground and make any progress in a good direction at all it needs to be handled with care.

Personally I think I do understand what right speech means and what it means to me. I can also tell when someone is angry, and when they are refraining from anger. This may or may not be true for others. As far as measuring others, well, even masters mess that up lol!

shel~

I am so glad you explained this interesting corner of the human mind. This is why in Zen they have the three treasures, the Buddha, The Dharma, and the Sanga (which helps keep you connected to the world and breaks up this sort of thinking, so one can sit with it and wonder if it really is such a good idea to be doing/believing such and such.) Very nice. It is appreciated.
“It is easy to believe we are each waves and forget we are also the ocean.”
― Jon J. Muth
“Consider your own place in the universal oneness of which we are all a part, from which we all arise, and to which we all return.”
― David Fontana

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Sara H
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby Sara H » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:55 am

"Life is full of suffering. AND Life is full of the Eternal
IT IS OUR CHOICE
We can stand in our shadow, and wallow in the darkness,
OR
We can turn around.
It is OUR choice." -Rev. Basil Singer

" ...out of fear, even the good harm one another. " -Rev. Dazui MacPhillamy

Yudron
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby Yudron » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:31 am

Sara, this post structure that you like--skipping a line after every sentence--makes it hard to read your posts. It has a fingernails-on-a-blackboard effect for me. I can't get beyond it to try to understand what you are trying to communicate.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

muni
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby muni » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:33 am

Judging- excluding others, looks like judging-excluding that what is a danger/negative for ones own 'self clinging protection', the wish to getting rid of our projections formed by our fear, hope, and so frustrations, irritations...

Some of my own formed projections-of others in thoughts are friends, some not. Those who are like me are not a danger for me.

Concept Buddhism can be used for painful rightenesses or for the genuine honest love for our own being and so all beings to see what is samsara.

:soapbox: Boundless love, compassion, joy in equanimity is not easy.

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conebeckham
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby conebeckham » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:06 pm



"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

shel
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby shel » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 pm


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dzogchungpa
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:55 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

Simon E.
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby Simon E. » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Every post a sutra
loaded

with portent.
And deep, deep,
significance.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:36 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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futerko
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Re: Who gets to comment on what? Why should I listen?

Postby futerko » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:55 pm



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