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The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:06 am


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Ben
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Ben » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:07 am

Thanks for sharing your experience, Jason.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby cooran » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:59 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

chownah
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:42 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:09 pm

Well, Chownah, it turns out we do agree on quite a bit of what you said but not on the initial point, which was whether one particular Supreme Court decision was good or bad for democracy in America. I thought, and still think, that it was bad.
One reason it is so bad is that, as you say, 'people are not educated to the point that they can see throught corporate propoganda.'
The other reason is that the decision is directly in conflict with the basis of democracy, i.e. one person = one vote and elected politicians should be beholden to no-one but the voters.
I will take those thoughts further when I have more time - or maybe someone else would like to?

:namaste:
Kim

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Tex
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Tex » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:11 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

chownah
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:03 pm

Tex,
With all due respect to you too I think that your value system is just a bit overly influenced by where you live.
It is true that many Americans have lost their homes but it is also true that a huge percent of them if not the the bulk of them bought just about the most expensive home that they could talk the banks into and believe you me that every since about 2004 the banks didn't need much talking to help those folks into homes that they could not afford to keep over the long haul....why?....because the buyer figured prices would rise forever (an idiot is born every minute) and they would get filhy rich when they sold in a few years and the banks made big profits (at least on the books if not in reality) on each mortgage handled. I think if you can dig up some statistics on how old most of the mortgages were that are being forclosed I think you will find that the vast majority of them were held for fairly short terms. Another thing was that people who had held homes for a long time saw the market rising and figured it would go on forever (an idiot is born every minute) and so they took out second and third mortgages to max out their indebtedness in their homes based on the new ultra high valuations given by banks in that inflatted market. But the price didn't rise forever and so I think you'll find that alot of the homes in forclosure are ones that had more than one mortgage. This is a result of greedy banks and stupid and greedy people just seeing all that money and forgetting to do a reality check....well the reality check is here and it didn't come in the mail. Some people lost their homes which they purchased mostly as an investment since it was a bigger payment then they really wanted to pay on an ongoing basis (remember the variable rate loans.....super low interest now so you can afford to tie up an expensive house....don't worry...the price of houses is going up and you can sell when the rate goes up and make a bundle of money) so I guess I'm sorry that they have lost their home but really they were planning on moving out later anyway....only hey figured it would be into a better place and unfortunately it turned out to be a rental. Hard for me to feel bad about greedy people having to move into an apartment instead of a palace!

Europe has 1% of rich skewing their median income too.

If Americans started exercising and lost 30 pounds and started eating healthy and reducing their stress levels amd stopped smoking then they mostly wouldn't need health insurance and the population would be so healthy that the cost would plunge. Sorry but I just can't get too much sympathy up for people who don't take care of their health....although I do see how they do suffer from this and hope that they see the light and get healthy.

You say, "The belief that the average American lives some "oppulent lifestyle" is a complete myth." Tex, have you ever been outside Texas?....outside the USA? Maybe you've been to Mexico?....how would you compare the life style of the average American compared to the average Mexican? Oppulent? I would.....but it gets better....I live in Thailand...have you ever been to SE Asia? I would say that the average Mexican lives a somewhat oppulent life style compared to the bulk of the people in SE Asia....and it probably even gets better than that in that what is it like lin Africa?....I've never been there but there are places where tens of thousands of children are dieing every day from starvation....or at least they were a couple of months ago...I'm not sure what the death rate is this month...
I would say that compared to Africa "The suffering in America is a bunch of spoiled rich kids crying because they had to get a cheaper cell phones." I'm sorry that people in America feel the need to work two jobs to make enough money....and even sorrier that maybe one of those jobs is in a place like Mcdonalds but you know there are literally MILLIONS of people in Africa who would gladly take out the garbage at a Mcdonalds for free just so they could eat it!!!!

I hope I'm not being too harsh....I actually do feel sorry for the suffering going on in the USA but I try to keep my focus on seeing things as they really are and keeping things in perspective.

chownah

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Tex
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Tex » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:01 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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daverupa
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby daverupa » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:04 pm

:goodpost:

santa100
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby santa100 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:13 am

Unfortunately this is just the beginning of a long painful future, not just for America, but for every countries. In 1999, there're ~ 6 billion people on earth. Just 12 years later, it exploded to 7 billion. And it'll keep climbing with projected 9 bill. by mid-century and easily beyond 10 bill. by 2100. This only adds unimaginable pressure on a planet already plunging into environmental catastrophe. Pretty soon, the last batch of rainforests will be chopped down for new farms, groundwater will be depleted, greenhouse gases and air pollutants will make new record levels every day, mass extinction of countless species, etc... Fixing the problems although not impossible, but will be very very challenging..

chownah
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby chownah » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:01 am

Tex wrote:
"The perception by some people internationally that the average American lives some opulent lifestyle is simply incorrect. The average American doesn't have it any better than the average Brit, German, Frenchman, Italian, Swede, Aussie, etc.
"
You seem to be defensive about being an American....my discussion about Americans comes from the Occupy Wall Street topic....Wall Street is in America....this demonstration started in America and I am familiar with how things go in America so I'm talking about America.

Why do you only want to compare Americans to that list of yours from Wikipedia I found the list of the highest 34 countries for median income your choices include Brit #8, German #15, French #18, Italian #23, Swede #12, and Aussie #5.....the LOWEST is Italian at #23 with a median income of 16,866......this just over half of the 31,111 reported for the US. So just consider if you only had half of your income....Italians would probably consider their lives alot more oppulent if they doubled their incomes tomorrow. But wait, it gets better, remember Mexico?....they are number 34 on the list with a median income of 4,689.....don't you think that a Mexican would think that there life style would become opulent if their incomes increased more than 6 fold tomorrow?

And the list stops at only the 34 top countries in the world....there is something like 200 countries in the world .......let's look closer to the middle of the entire list....let's look at India...with about 1/5th of the world population it is estimated that the average income is about $500 per year (note that the median income is probably substantially lower than the average income).....don't you think that the average Indian would think that the average Mexican has an oppulent life style....and what do you think that the average Indian thinks about the average American's lifestyle?.....

Need I continue this and look at Africa?????????

Tex,
I think you are doing a good job at representing just how short sighted Americans are and at how they have little ideas about the realities of life around the world.
chownah

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daverupa
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby daverupa » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:28 am


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kirk5a
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby kirk5a » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:09 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Tex
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Tex » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:25 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

chownah
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:45 am


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manas
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby manas » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:52 am

I can recall a place where the Buddha says (according to sutta) that a layperson should earn their living honestly, 'by the sweat of one's brow', and obviously, without thieving and trickery. Those who plant no seed in the ground to feed others, nurse no wound, build no house, nor do any other useful thing for humanity, but *only* trade with other people's hard earned money (just figures on a screen to them, anyway): these greedy investors / elite bankers et al do need to be held to account, because by their 'occupation' so many people are losing their jobs, houses, all they honestly worked for, on account of the boundless greed of these people. They really are like parasites who live immensely wealthy lives off the hard work of others, and surely we can understand a bit of 'harsh speech' from the protesters and possibly see it in perspective.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Jhana4
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:55 am

:goodpost:
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

chownah
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:51 am

I'd really like to see a sutta reference where the Buddha teaches about how we should only make our living by "the sweat of our brow".....I don't think he said that or anything else directly to that effect.....can anyone provide one/some?
chownah

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ground
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby ground » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:14 am


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cooran
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Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street

Postby cooran » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:24 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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