gregkavarnos wrote:Without a teacher (or texts written by teachers) how do you know when you have uncovered the final truth? How will you know that you are not just kidding yourself? You know how many people get stuck at certain levels/layers thinking they have achieved enlightenment? Why do you think that you will not get stuck somewhere?
The Buddha managed it, so can some of us that have the right karma, or maybe any of us if we do it properly.
gregkavarnos wrote:Hello!!! You are quoting a teacher to say that you do not need a teacher! I guess the irony is lost on you?
I mean a real life teacher in the here and now that guides you through meditation.
gregkavarnos wrote:Sure, you may get that idea if you have not been taught the meaning behind everything being done. And who will teach you the meanings? I bet you can guess that one!
Yes, there are meanings, I get that. I also get that they can work and send you closer to awakening. But there's other ways too, and I often think there's an over-reliance, and attachment to ritual.
gregkavarnos wrote:Who said this and where did they say it? I mean, yes, respect the sangha and do not cause divisions, but the second part?
This might be wrong actually, so sorry if so. Maybe I got mixed up with going to hell for creating a schism. I'm sure I saw that one somewhere!
gregkavarnos wrote:I'll take it that you do not have access to a teacher and you are looking to justify this to yourself? Instead of justifying it why do you not engage in a practice, like the 35 Confession Buddhas, which will burn a hole through some of that negative karma and let a teacher in?
What negative karma makes me need a teacher if I can access my own inner teacher by meditating properly? There's no way you can tell me on a message board that I don't meditate right. You can find faults in some of my words, fair enough, but I'm not pretending to be awake. I'm just saying that I think I'm on the right track if I carry on meditating by using sutras and my own intuition (intuition = inner teacher. Same thing that the Buddha used to achieve enlightement, as far as I can tell.) as guides.
gregkavarnos wrote:Who wrote the books and sutras? That's right, TEACHERS.
Again, I mean real life teachers in the here and now. I get that you need to have good meditators to write books, but I'm not sure if you have to be a teacher for the books to work. For sutras, well they're supposed to come from the Buddha, who yes, is a teacher, but again I mean the reliance on real life teachers, not the Buddha as our original teacher.
gregkavarnos wrote:So your ego is telling you that you (being so smart clever and advanced) do not need to put a teacher above you, that you can do it by yourself, that you do not need any help, that everybody else is deluded and needs help but not you, that you understand everything written in the TEACHINGS without needing any help to interpret them, that you are capable of explaining and overcoming all meditational experiences and obstacles by yourself, etc...?
No, I'm saying that I doubt many of us need real life teachers. I don't do above and below so I don't think anyone is above me, or below me, I think we're all equal. To say otherwise is creating division. But you're just starting to twist things when you say everyone is deluded but me. (and smart, clever and advanced.) If that was the case I'd be awake, and not needing to ask these questions. Instead I'd be explaining how they're facts, or I'd know they're not facts and let it go as delusion. I obviously don't know if they're facts or not, so I'm questioning.
Tell your ego to shut up for a second and listen. When I started practicing I relied solely on Sutta and Sutras and books because I lived in a small town, on a small island in the middle of the Aegean. Now I loved practicing and would spend lots of time just doing sati meditation. The thing is, that at some point in time, I had some experiences that I could not explain, that I could not find described in books, Suttas and Sutras. Experiences that were quite capable of compromising my sanity. And you know what? You know what the only answer to my dilemma (insanity or progress) was? I'll leave it up to you to guess. But obviously your practice has not arrived at this point yet. If you keep at it, it will!
I think I'm asking honest questions here, not caught up in ego. That doesn't mean I discount this being the result of my ego, I get that I could just be deluded and have the ego causing problems, wouldn't be a very aware person if I didn't see that as a possibility, and if I couldn't I'd probably need a teacher quickly. But yes, if I have experiences that test my sanity to the point that I can't carry on, yes of course, I'll have to seek a teacher. I'm not saying I'm above teachers, again I don't do above and below like that, I'm genuinely trying to ask a question that I think is a problem, and that's the idea of "everyone" "needing" a real life teacher to learn meditation properly.
"A 'position', Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with." - MN 72