uan wrote:I'm trying to get clear where this thread is at.
It's titled Sex Taboo's & applying Christianized thinking in Western Zen. However, many of the posts here have demonstrated that there is quite a bit of Easternized Dharma thinking being applied to Western Zen.
However, it seems that the argument has now shifted and that true Zen is free (or should be free) from being conceptualized either by a Abrahamic thinking or Eastern Dharma thinking, i.e., the precepts don't apply to Zen masters or Enlightened Zen masters. From those in the know, it appears Zen falls along a similar continuum as Crazy Wisdom and the like.
If this is the case, I think the title of this thread is no longer applicable to what's being discussed.
I think we somehow try to make effort to continue the topic... Sara, the real author, greg, others and me included somehow for the better or worse try to make something out of it...
As for zen one has to say, that all levels of precepts are applied.. then as for the zen master, one is supposed to be a perfect embodiment of the precepts, but ultimately the buddha nature precepts are most important and that understanding is applied. Now we have what greg brought up, with strong moralistic touch.. yes it is important in zen specially when one teaches the lay folk, but not for actual practitioners. Of course real practitioner by real I mean gifted who are capable to follow the true zen path not just its resemblance or fake copy...
Going through the levels of accomplishment what is most important are great bodhisattva vows, and samayas to start from with deep understanding of bodhicitta, and finally buddha's samaya of buddha nature vows, for which buddha nature is their original source... they are called vajra vows or pledges, since they are indestructible and stainless, what is clearly explained during the prediction of buddhahood and buddha lineage blessing, mostly sort of secret when it is well explained... as for the zen master since he has to have complete insight into innermost instructions called JI SHO I he should become great vessel of precepts knowing how to skillfully apply upaya in accordance with mind of the student and conditions to bring one as soon as possible to liberation... one can put it looking from outside that the precepts don't apply to Zen masters or Enlightened Zen masters. but it is not what is taught. Concerning Crazy Wisdom it is not known in Japan, I mean the term... but as I said with the eye of wisdom one should be extremely skilled in JI SHO I and be able to apply method according to the circumstances...
In fact such master should be most ethical or moral,what I mean by moral represents the 3 kayas fully being vessel of Vairochana Buddha, however what I mean here by moral it is not always the meaning common humans like us may try to apply or understand... it goes completely beyond social morality, and moral would mean here also the vow to liberate all beings, by any costs...
I have no idea what is understanding of zen in the West, I tried to figure out but it is very unclear to me... what I wrote is basically true to soto zen tradition in Japan but well followed also by rinzai, since the topic was well exposed by XX century soto master, and is very appreciated by rinzai roshis as well. however there are hundereds of recorded teachings on the topic... once I counted and it was well over 200 works. I am sorry in Jpanese or Chinese dharma language
never seen anything in English....