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"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mikenz66
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:30 am

Thanks for the explanation Venerable Fred,

:bow:

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby namaste » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:02 am

What do members think of the part of the book in which he discusses the Pali canon, and says that there are parts of it that were developed by Theravada, and parts that were ignored, the latter of which became the basis for some of the Mahayana teachings? (Under "What Is Theravada?") He gives a couple of examples, I'll just mention one here:

"For example, the Four Expressions of Sympathy (sangha vatthuni) are frequently mentioned by the Buddha, and could have important implications for a deeper understanding of love and compassion, particularly their social application. Mahayana used them to develop a whole philosophy of practical altruism, but they're given almost no attention in Theravada." He also discusses different versions of dependent origination taught by the Buddha, only one of which was developed into the concept we know as such today.

I find this fascinating. Do readers here feel this is a fair representation of scriptural development?

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:22 am


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:08 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:11 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:18 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Skeptic
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Skeptic » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:07 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby appicchato » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:31 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:55 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Nicro » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:43 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:36 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby namaste » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:39 pm

The other example of selectivity in doctrine based on the Pali canon is the doctrine of dependent origination. Dhammika says:

"There are two versions of this doctrine--one showing the arising of suffering, and the other showing the arising of liberation and freedom. The first of these ... features in virtually every book on Theravada... The second, and one would think the more important of the two, is virtually unknown, even by learned Theravadins. ... Carolyn Rhys Davis called this positive version of dependent origination an 'oasis' and asked, 'How might it have altered the whole face of Buddhism in the West if that sequence had been made the illustration of the causal law!' Indeed, how might it have altered the whole face of Theravada in Asia?"

I find that this type of analysis raises tantalizing possibilities. It seems there's a wealth of doctrine to be mined from overlooked segments of the canon that could do much to enrich our understanding and practice of Buddhism. This would make an exciting and rewarding project for scholars--really, a potentially great gift to mankind, or at least, Buddhist-kind.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:47 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:50 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:45 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby appicchato » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:13 am


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Cilla » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:51 am

This thread is a bit too long for me to read beyond the first page. I think i've got the general idea. I just want to make a quick point relating to the initial OP.

There is criticism of all traditions of buddhism i think and i think the cultural shifts has a lot to do with it. I think the criticisms are relevant and helpful. It might be perfectly sensible and acceptable for thais to follow the thai traditions but when the thai traditions are transmitted to a western context, the people find aspects of it problematic. To me that's quite normal.

Two books i've read that address these issues are:

Confession of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor. He was ordained as a tibettan monk. He eventually disrobed to get married, after being a monk also in the zen tradition for a time. His main criticism as far as i can see is the dogmatism of tibettan buddhism. It simply wasn't acceptable to question anything. Ultimately you had to conform. Given the buddha's emphasis on discover it for yourself and don't trust me, this seems a perfectly acceptable criticism.

The other book which takes a wider overview and less critical is The New Buddhism by James William Coleman. I think this is an excellent book to get a good feel for buddhism as it has arrived in the west and how westerners related to buddhism and its practices. He just doesn't write about buddhism in the west and its teething problems. He gives a good background to all the buddhist traditions and their development. (Though my part i'd love to see book that treats that as a topic in itself because his book couldn't go into it deeply enough.)

I am now rather interested to read this book that's been mentioned though it probably doesn't have a lot of specific relevance to me, though i may one day have a different view of that if i end up involved more closely with theravada buddhism than currently.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:37 am

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:37 am


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Zom » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:56 am



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