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three types of "enlightenment"... - Dhamma Wheel

three types of "enlightenment"...

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
nicholas
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three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:39 am

so when i look at all the mystic traditions of the world i notice that most have some type of enlightenment ideal more or less similar to buddhism.

i've grouped them into three types.

1. the buddhist type which we all know and love :hug: obviously this is where one sits, wide awake, focusing on one of the forty meditation subjects until he/she goes through all four jhanas and the four formless realms and then experiences nibbana, rebirth, samsara, twelve links, etc.

1a. the hindu/jain/other religions, etc. the type where someone truly experiences the divine, or ultimate reality.

2. the kind favored by shamaans and other mystics and probably happens to some buddhists by mistake: this i think is where someone can remain conscious while going into a dream and be completely lucid. they learn things from the subconscious mind and create dream worlds and have conversations with made up characters from their imagination and think they are in a different world. if someone is very good at this and doesn't realize that they are just having lucid dreams that are quite normal, they may think they can tap into the spirit world or some other dimension and therefore believe that they are enlightened and connected to the divine when in fact they are asleep! this is rare. i've known many lucid dreamers (i can do it sometimes) but to be able to do it at will and while sitting up meditating is not common. examples would be a hindu yogi who meditates into a dream without knowing it and communes with his dream version of god, then comes back to reality (wakes up) and says he's reached enlightenment. union with god. another example would be a buddhist who falls asleep and slips into a dream and starts seeing all his/her past lives, universe contractions/expansions, the six realms, etc. this person is dreaming but doesn't realize it and so when they wake up they think they reached enlightenment! they are so good at lucid dreaming naturally that they didn't even know what was happening. now maybe this is a legit method, maybe dreams are a real other dimension sometimes, but i'm talking about the times when they're not. i'm talking about the times when someone is just asleep and having a regular old lucid dream. so all you dream yogis don't get all bent out of shape. the dreams that are reality and enlightening type would be under section 1a., not here.

2a: the same thing but using drugs to reach these dream states or even hallucinations.

3. someone who simply has their own mind under control. they don't know the secrets of the universe, they simply have spent so much time doing whatever mental practices that they keep themselves at a good level at all times. compared to the average person who is enslaved to their emotions this is a type of enlightenment in my opinion. there are ways to get the mind under control and there's nothing mystical or otherworldly about it. obviously buddhist practice has this effect to a large degree!


thoughts? ideas?

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tiltbillings
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:05 am


nicholas
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:18 am


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mikenz66
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:12 am


nicholas
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:20 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:36 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:39 am


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mikenz66
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

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Alexei
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby Alexei » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:02 am


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daverupa
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:21 pm


nicholas
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:26 pm

wow i'm done. you guys are no fun. you're picking apart this topic even though it's obvious what it's about regardless of the semantics involved. i'm not here to have debates with people who are offended by every little thing, or if you say you're not offended and then pick whatever word or phrase you want to explain why you're all attacking this topic instead of just musing about it which was the initial point of it. have fun beating a dead horse.

anyone who wants to talk about the different enlightenment like experiences from around the world, i'm all ears :smile:

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Kare
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby Kare » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

nicholas
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:55 pm


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daverupa
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

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daverupa
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:31 pm


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Alexei
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby Alexei » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:20 pm


nicholas
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby nicholas » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:48 pm

Last edited by nicholas on Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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daverupa
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:06 pm

For my part, I chose to highlight some problematic assumptions in the post. It has nothing to do with you personally, at all. It is the lounge, as you say - best to throw out a piece of writing and refrain from identifying with it. The invitation "thoughts/ideas?" must somehow not have been as open-ended as it seemed.

:heart:

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mikenz66
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Re: three types of "enlightenment"...

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:23 pm



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