Dolpo Dharma ?

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Aemilius
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Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

As some of you know tibetan language doesn't favour words beginning with a vocal, neither can tibetan language accept diftongs, diftongs become single vocals, au becomes o etc... For this and other reasons I have concluded that "Lama Dolpopa" means Lama Europe. It refers to an european person who came to Tibet and was active there. "Dolpo Sanggye" means European Buddha, "Dolpo Sherab Sanggye" means European Wisdom Buddha. Tibetans favour the word "western" because they can't say "european".
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Aemilius wrote:As some of you know tibetan language doesn't favour words beginning with a vocal, neither can tibetan language accept diftongs, diftongs become single vocals, au becomes o etc... For this and other reasons I have concluded that "Lama Dolpopa" means Lama Europe. It refers to an european person who came to Tibet and was active there. "Dolpo Sanggye" means European Buddha, "Dolpo Sherab Sanggye" means European Wisdom Buddha. Tibetans favour the word "western" because they can't say "european".
Even not knowing Tibetan, I think you are mistaken. "Dolpo" is the name of a region in Nepal where he was born. Many Tibetans are called by the name of their birth region. His biographies say he was born in that region of Nepal; so unless you think Nepal is part of Europe or that an expatriate group of europeans were living in Nepal in the 1290s I do not think your speculation is correct.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
mutsuk
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by mutsuk »

Aemilius,

Will is perfectly right. Dolpo is a tibetan speaking region of North-western Nepal. Dolpopa means "the one from Dolpo", or "the one born in Dolpo".
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Aemilius
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

Dolpo in Nepal/Tibet is similar to the places like New Wales, New York, Nova Scotia etc in United States/Canada. There is also the original Dolpo, the original Europe.
That Dolpo is actually in Nepal is told to simple people so that they don't have to travel very far (to reach the real Europe/Dolpo). This same thing has been done in many countries of our world (in regard to different important & holy locations).
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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conebeckham
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by conebeckham »

You're wrong-Dolpopa had nothing to do with Europe. the REAL Dolpo is in present-day Nepal region. By your (specious) reasoning, the "Dolpo" in Nepal would be called New Dolpo.

And there are examples of dipthongs in Tibetan--sometimes they are proounced as elided vowel-sounds, and sometimes not. Best example would be the grammatical marker "ah-chung Gigu" affixed after final vowels "ah" --these are sometimes pronounced as something like "ah-ee." Sometimes just "ay."

Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen was not European. What, by the way, is the word for "Europe" that you seem to think equates with Dolpo?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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conebeckham
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by conebeckham »

..and, while we're at it, are you proposing that New York, New Wales, and Nova Scotia ("New Scotland") are somehow "stand-ins" for their "originals," or are meant to deceive people who really want to go to York, even though they don't know it?

:shrug:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Aemilius
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

I have heard enough of tibetan pronounciation of european words of european languages, so that "dolpo" seems and sounds just like a very normal tibetan version of it.


conebeckham wrote:You're wrong-Dolpopa had nothing to do with Europe. the REAL Dolpo is in present-day Nepal region. By your (specious) reasoning, the "Dolpo" in Nepal would be called New Dolpo.

And there are examples of dipthongs in Tibetan--sometimes they are proounced as elided vowel-sounds, and sometimes not. Best example would be the grammatical marker "ah-chung Gigu" affixed after final vowels "ah" --these are sometimes pronounced as something like "ah-ee." Sometimes just "ay."

Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen was not European. What, by the way, is the word for "Europe" that you seem to think equates with Dolpo?
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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conebeckham
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by conebeckham »

What is this "it" that Dolpo sounds like, specifically?

Are you saying that, in general, the word "Dolpo" sounds like a European word? And that, therefore, Dolpo must be Europe. Forgive me, I'm having a hard time following you here......
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Aemilius
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

conebeckham wrote:What is this "it" that Dolpo sounds like, specifically?
"Dolpo" sounds like a tibetan version of the word "europe", clear now ?
Jäschke analyses briefly in the introduction of his dictionary different tibetan dialects and how they pronounce words beginning with vowels, sure enough there is a case in which initial vowel becomes d + initial vowel.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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conebeckham
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by conebeckham »

Well, the Tibetans I hang out with have no problem saying "Europe." Without a "D" sound at the beginning. Some of them don't speak much English either.

In any case, I'm quite sure Dolpopa was from Dolpo, In present-day Nepal, and was not European.

You are free to speculate howsoever you desire, though.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Aemilius
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

conebeckham wrote:Well, the Tibetans I hang out with have no problem saying "Europe." Without a "D" sound at the beginning. Some of them don't speak much English either.

In any case, I'm quite sure Dolpopa was from Dolpo, In present-day Nepal, and was not European.

You are free to speculate howsoever you desire, though.
They are probably young, and have trained themselves specifically for that purpose. Time has passed, and it helps somewhat, some of the tibetans learn gradually foreign languages. But there are some (tibetans) who never learn foreign tongues. You are making a false conclusion.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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conebeckham
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by conebeckham »

I may be making a false or incorrect conclusion based on my evidence.

But you are certainly speculating, well outside the realm of the reasonable, in thinking Dolpopa was from Europe. Talk to Cyrus Stearns, or Gene Smith....or any Lama familiar with Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen's work and history.

I will leave the discussion, as I have nothing more to contribute.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Dhondrub
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Dhondrub »

You know, I recently found out that Milarepa was actually from Milano, Italy. There he was known as the reaper(for he killed 37 of his relatives using black magic),but Tibetans just couldnt pronounce it, hence the milanese reaper became Milarepa.
:smile:
mutsuk
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by mutsuk »

Dhondrub wrote:You know, I recently found out that Milarepa was actually from Milano, Italy. There he was known as the reaper(for he killed 37 of his relatives using black magic),but Tibetans just couldnt pronounce it, hence the milanese reaper became Milarepa.
:smile:
I knew there was some mafia behind that, Dhondrub! :rolling:

Aemilius, your statements are deluded. Dolpo is a region of Western Nepal. It is well-known. Dolpopa was not an european. You could at least read his biography in English this would avoid all this nonsense you are talking about.
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Aemilius
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by Aemilius »

mutsuk wrote:
Dhondrub wrote:You know, I recently found out that Milarepa was actually from Milano, Italy. There he was known as the reaper(for he killed 37 of his relatives using black magic),but Tibetans just couldnt pronounce it, hence the milanese reaper became Milarepa.
:smile:
I knew there was some mafia behind that, Dhondrub! :rolling:

Aemilius, your statements are deluded. Dolpo is a region of Western Nepal. It is well-known. Dolpopa was not an european. You could at least read his biography in English this would avoid all this nonsense you are talking about.

It is not wise to assume that anything written in history books is factually true.
There is strong evidence for the contrary, i.e. that writing history is a valuable tool for any state, for all kinds of national interests.
I don't wish to contradict your faith, in case you have real and genuine faith in Lama Dolpopa.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
mutsuk
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Re: Dolpo Dharma ?

Post by mutsuk »

Aemilius wrote: It is not wise to assume that anything written in history books is factually true.
There is strong evidence for the contrary, i.e. that writing history is a valuable tool for any state, for all kinds of national interests.
I don't wish to contradict your faith, in case you have real and genuine faith in Lama Dolpopa.
This is not the problem. The problem is : your assumption about Dolpopa is based on a wrong and nonsensical elaboration of your mind. Please take the time to read the book by C. Stearns. This will greatly help you understand your mistake and will avoid all that waste of time.
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