Treeleaf Sangha

tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:30 pm


shel
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:09 pm

Which category does Gudo Wafu Nishijima (Jundo's teacher) fall in?

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Grigoris
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Grigoris » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:03 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:55 pm


shel
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:05 pm


DGA
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby DGA » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:13 pm


tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:49 am

Last edited by tigerdown on Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:08 am

If I may speak of one situation I was very concerned about at one time because of the degree of Guru worship and other things going on, that was when I was around Trungpa's group for a few years. Talk about a lack of information and unusual behavior! Decisions were made behind the scenes, and in retrospect we should have been concerned when they created a secret police and started wearing military uniforms, and hinting that Trungpa and his wife would soon be the Emperor and Empress of the world government or some such thing. Here is Lady Diana, Trungpa's wife, in uniform.

http://chronicleproject.com/stories_109.html

Trungpa Rinpoche back in the day

http://janineschulz.files.wordpress.com ... =480&h=349

A couple of years later, the Regent, who was then leading us, killed a young man by the Regent's hiding that he had AIDS. For years, both during and even after that we had no information on what was going on, and we were living right around all these people and seeing them constantly.

Now, that is a group where a simple Google will turn up 1000 unusual stories and scandals (unfortunately we did not have it back then so it was easier to hide things), and it is now considered today a pretty harmless and mainstream Buddhist group, which I think it is for the most part now. Please compare.

T
..

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:52 am

@tigerdown
Frankly, I think it's laughable to compare Bozo, I mean Jundo, to Trungpa.
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Son of Buddha » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:25 am


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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby plwk » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:37 am

So myozankodo, pray tell, what hast thou learnt from this thread? :popcorn:

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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby shel » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:54 am


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Grigoris
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Grigoris » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:30 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:43 am

Last edited by tigerdown on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Grigoris » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:51 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:58 pm

Last edited by tigerdown on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:27 pm

One more point worth adding:

If you took a survey of active Scientologists, the chances are you would receive a great majority of positive reports about Scientology. However, those positive reports might be discounted because, with a little digging around, one can find much dirt, negative evidence and reports of former members to fill books:

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/24/170010096 ... cientology

However, if one conducts of survey of active Quakers, the chance are that you would receive a great majority of positive reports about Quakerism. However, there likely would be few negative reports despite digging around. Thus, one might assume that Quakerism is a more positive religious experience for its participants.

In this case, the number of positive reports of a wholesome experience and good teaching, coupled with the fact that nobody seems to be able to identify any reports of a serious negative despite serious efforts to find such negative reports, must lead to the conclusion that the place is likely not too bad, and maybe quite good.

T

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Grigoris
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Grigoris » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:33 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

tigerdown
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby tigerdown » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Treeleaf Sangha

Postby Dan74 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:52 pm

I confess, I find this thread a bit sad.

We have on one hand people expressing reservations about Trealeaf online format, people expressing reservations about Trealeaf teacher, Jundo, and a number of Trealeaf members defending both.

Well, to what end?

If they teach adharma at Trealeaf, lets discuss that. If there are some pertinent revelations about Jundo, lets see them. Otherwise this just goes to undermine people's practice there. It is corrosive without offering anything.

Jundo and I have disagreed many times in the past. He may not conform to my idea of a "first-rate teacher," but that's just my opinion and I may well be wrong (I have been in the past due to reading too much into this medium). So if folks have no access to real-world Sangha, why deny them an opportunity to practice with Trealeaf? Why rubbish the place and the teacher and undermine their practice?

I think if we have reservations, they are best kept to ourselves. If we have facts to offer - that's another story.

And if people have access to a real-world Sangha, I think they should experience it. In fact I think it is good to experience several teachers.

But frankly, isn't our time better spent practicing than doing the circles around this thread? I mean it is rare to encounter the Dharma, it's a great blessing and we should all feel immensely grateful to the Buddha all the way down to our teachers who pass it on to us. I am sure we do. And if Jundo is an imperfect vessel, so what? Whose teacher is perfect? All we can hope for is that people's practice takes root and then they will find the way, even with the most imperfect teacher.


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