floating_abu wrote:you have been hitting the Treeleaf line for a long time now, I am no fan of Jundo and would not take guidance from him myself, but the reality is this whole world sees things differently. Almost all of Treeleaf Sangha is here to defend the group, and if they find it useful, then who are we to argue that.
The topic is not about usefulness, it's about the Treeleaf controversy, which centers around the issue of 'online sangha', or at least that's the aspect currently being discussed.
If it is useful for practitioners, if people continue to solidly explore Buddha's teachings and practice wholeheartedly, then it has a function. If there are limits to that function, OK, as a student blooms, they themself can be in a position to know perhaps.
This 'smokescreen' about real or fakeness online or offline is quite frankly redundant IMO in this topic.
I have seen the biggest Zen posers in real life and online. I have also seen some people, such as at that Zen blogger site, be outright rude and abusive because they can do so behind an online persona. I have also seen people who remain kind and truthful behind online names, with no credit going anywhere soon. I have also seen many so called "teachers" or "leaders" try to build their names and careers through the internet - some in robes and others not, OK fine -- this is all part of the landscape like it or not. Some of these creeps (I am not talking about Jundo who I have not interacted with for many years now) also creep me out severely but I also know that these people are part of the very fabric of human life - it has never been not so in any dimension or period of human historical life.
There are other elements you have spoken about such as charades and truth, which I find some incongruity with but for now I will leave you be, and wish you well on this topic and others.
Basically I do not think the online part is the controversy. If that was Hakuin at the helm, would it be an issue? I doubt it, nor do I believe Hakuin would only teach online, but first thing's first. And I mean no disrespect to Jundo who I have not spoken with, or read, for a long time now. Nor will I do so probably.
For those who wish to continue with Treeleaf Zendo, I also wish them well and may all blossom within the Truth of this practice.