Profound Secrets Sutra

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Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Will » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:18 pm

This is not the complete sutra, but Rulu has picked a beautiful, inspiring section. It covers the Ten grounds, paramitas & other bodhisattva teachings.

Anyone familiar with this sutra? Hsuan Tsang translated it.

http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra36.html
Only consider helping others and forget yourself. Master Hsuan Hua
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby pueraeternus » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:15 pm

This is the Sandhinirmocana Sutra - key to the Yogacara teachings.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Will » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:16 pm

pueraeternus wrote:This is the Sandhinirmocana Sutra - key to the Yogacara teachings.


Ah - thank you. If my memory was better I would have recognized it!

Cleary has one, Buddhist Yoga; and BDK also, Keenan translator Explication of the Underlying Meaning. Both are from the Chinese. Powers' Wisdom of the Buddha is from the Tibetan and chapter nine is one that corresponds to the Chinese ch. seven.
Only consider helping others and forget yourself. Master Hsuan Hua
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby pueraeternus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:54 am

I hope Rulu translates the rest of it. I love the Yogacara teachings - can't hurt to have more good translations.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra THANK YOU

Postby Leo Rivers » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:57 am

This text has been translated three times - once by Thomas Cleary as [a course in] Buddhist Yoga and John Powers as The Wisdom of the Buddha, and finally by Keenan in The Scripture on the Explication of Underlaying Meaning.

The Cleary text is aimed at being very simple and straightforward, an effort to make it easy to assimilate text.

The Power's book is lovely having facing pages of Tibetan and English text and a full set of notes. In a review of John Powers book that you can find on the Internet by Tom Graham you can get the background picture of just how frustrating it is that a text this important as a background to both the Yogacara School and the view of the Tantras is almost completely overlooked by American Buddhists.

Both the Powers and the newest, excellent, translation by Keenan offer a both a crystal clarity of translation and insightful footnotes that make for a compact commentary on the text all by themselves.

Key to Coordinating the available english translations:

I. The Samdhinirmochana Sutra as translated from The Tibetan of the sDe-dge bKa'-`gur:
1.) Powers, John. Wisdom of Buddha: The Samdhinirmochana Sutra. Dharma Publishing, 1995

II. The Samdhinirmochana Sutra as translated from The Chinese of Hsuan-tsang (Taisho Vol. 16, Number 676):

2a.) Cleary, Thomas. Buddhist Yoga: A Comprehensive Course. 1st ed. Shambhala, 1995. the same text republished in
2b.) Cleary, Classics of Buddhism and Zen, Shambhalla, 2002

3.) Keenan, John P.. The Scripture on the Explication of Underlying Meaning. Numata Center for Buddhist Translation & Research, 2000.

------------

A Student's Guide to Using their version to Study the Samdhinirmochana Sutra

Keenan Chapter One Page 7
Cleary Chapter One Page 1 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 753]
"Introduction"
[Powers Chapter One] Gambhirarrthasamdhinirmocana p.5

Keenan Chapter One Page 11
Cleary Chapter Two Page 5 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 755]
"Characteristics of Ultimate Truth"
[Powers Chapter Two] Dahrmodgata p. 25
[Powers Chapter Three] Suvisuddhamati p.35
[Powers Chapter Four] Subhuti p. 53

The first four chapters in Powers version focus on a discussion of the ultimate truth (paramartha).
------------

Keenan Chapter Three Page 27
Cleary Chapter Three Page 19 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 766]
"Characteristics of Mind, Intellect, and Consciousness"

[Powers Chapter Five] Visalamati p.69

Keenan Chapter Four Page 31
Cleary Chapter Four p. 23 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 769]
"Characteristics of All Phenomena"

[Powers Chapter Six] Gunakara p.82

The fifth and sixth chapters discuss the concept of alayavijñana or "storehouse consciousness" and the three characteristics of phenomena (trilak'a'a), which refer to the incomplete and absolute truth of various phenomena.
------------

Keenan Chapter Five Page 35
Cleary Chapter Five Page 27 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 772]
"Essencelessness"
[Powers Chapter Seven] Paramarthasamudgata p.95

The seventh chapter is mainly concerned with outlining principles of Buddhist HERMENEUTICS
------------

Keenan Chapter Six Page 51
Cleary Chapter Six Page 43 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 784]
"Analyzing Yoga"
[Powers Chapter Eight] Maitreya p. 151

The eighth chapter focuses on MEDITATION theory, (Yoga) and practice.
------------

Keenan Chapter Seven Page 51
Cleary Chapter Seven Page 69 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 805]
[Chapter Nine] Avalokite'vara p. 221
"The Transcendent Way of the Sages"

The ninth chapter describes the Bodhisattva PATH (Marga).
------------

Keenan Chapter Eight Page 99
Cleary Chapter Eight - Page 91 [ Classics Vol. 5 - p. 822]
"Deeds of the Enlightened "
Powers [Chapter Ten] Mañju'r' page 275

The final chapter is concerned with the characteristics of Buddhahood, the culmination of the practices the text describes.
------------ :buddha1:
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Leo Rivers » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:29 pm

" and it was great to get a reply from Rulu at http://www.sutrasmantras.info, even those the news is mixed - I asked him "have you translated any of the Yogacarabhumi-shastra?" and his reply was unequivocal.

Hello Leo,

Thank you for your visit to my website. By the way, the last seven chapters of text 676 can also be found in fascicles 75–78 of text 1579 (T30n1579), the Chinese version of the Treatise on the Yoga Teacher Ground (Yogācārya-bhūmi-śastra), written by Asaṅga and translated from Sanskrit by Xuanzang.

I do not intend to translate this treatise in 100 fascicles. Wishing you joy in the Dharma,

Rulu
http://www.sutrasmantras.info


I really think I will pass away before the Bodhisattva-bhumi much lest the completed suite of texts is translated. :buddha2:
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Will » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:35 pm

pueraeternus wrote:I hope Rulu translates the rest of it. I love the Yogacara teachings - can't hurt to have more good translations.


No such luck - I asked her and she said 'No'.
Only consider helping others and forget yourself. Master Hsuan Hua
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Leo Rivers » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:17 am

Will,

How do the three full versions compare to each other and this excerpt in your opinion?


Thanks

Leo


I asked her and she said 'No'.


ooops!
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Will » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 am

Leo,

Not knowing Chinese or Tibetan I cannot say; except that Powers has many more helpful notes from Wongchuk & Je Rinpoche & others. Keenan and Cleary not so many. If Rulu did the entire sutra, I suspect she would have a good supply of helps.
Only consider helping others and forget yourself. Master Hsuan Hua
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:00 pm

Cleary's translation has been called an "abridged" or "shortened" version. However, all the chapters seem to be there.
Cleary's title of the sutra is "Scripture Unlocking the Mysteries" but is often misstated as "Buddhist Yoga" because his book that contains his translation is titled Buddhist Yoga: A Comprehensive Course.

Cleary's translation may be found serialized at Sutra of Unlocking the Mysteries

John P. Keenan's translation is part of the BDK English Tripitaka series and is posted as a PDF file at Scribed The Scripture on the Explication of Underlying Meaning

Reb Anderson has a new book out called The Third Turning of the Wheel: Wisdom of the Samdhimirmocana Sutra (at Amazon) It isn't a translation of the Sutra but is his commentary on the major themes of the sutra based on Dharma talks he gave and study groups he participated in. Because the book comes out of his Dharma talks, the "voice" of the text is pretty fresh and non-academic. The book primarily uses the translation from Powers for the quotations that are focused upon, but he says he relied on the three translations of Powers, Cleary, and Keenan in working on the sutra.

_/|\_
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Re: Profound Secrets Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:19 pm

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:Reb Anderson has a new book out called The Third Turning of the Wheel: Wisdom of the Samdhimirmocana Sutra

Error caught too late to edit.
Correctly spelled: The Third Turning of the Wheel: Wisdom of the Samdhinirmocana Sutra

_/|\_
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