Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

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Jnana
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Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:15 am


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Indrajala
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Indrajala » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:18 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Astus
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Astus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:11 pm

I think there are different stages. In "Nagarjuna in Context" (p.23) it says that the earliest known sutras (translated by Lokaksema) rarely refer to mahayana, hinayana and bodhisattvayana, it is more about doctrinal-practical differences rather than sectarian.

I can't remember where I read this, but the MMK seems to try to be an argument for general acceptance by all Buddhists and does not quote Mahayana sources or the bodhisattva idea. In terms of karma it strangely accepts certain abhidharmic ideas (MMK 17.14).
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



plwk
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby plwk » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:49 pm


Jnana
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:42 pm


Jnana
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:50 pm


Jnana
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:54 pm


Michael_Dorfman
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Michael_Dorfman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:37 pm


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Astus
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Astus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:21 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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pueraeternus
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby pueraeternus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:04 pm

If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica

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Astus
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Astus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:09 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Konchog1
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:39 pm

I wonder if the firm stance Mahayana takes on the abilities of laypeople arose simply out of a need for followers.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

Greg
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Greg » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:37 am

I remember my surprise on learning that right up until the end of institutional Buddhism in India, the vast majority of Buddhists were sravakas of various kinds. My first exposure to Indian Buddhism being through the Tibetan presentation of the hierarchy of tenet systems, it seemed at least strongly implied that everyone converted en masse historically from one system to the next.

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Konchog1
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Konchog1 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:02 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

Jnana
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:54 am


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Indrajala
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Indrajala » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:04 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

Greg
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Greg » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:28 am


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Rakshasa
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Rakshasa » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:56 am

How does it explain the fact that Mahayana was once popular, if not dominant, even in Sri Lanka? Despite their strong conflicts, the Sri Lankans and Tamils are essentially the same people. And it is well known that at one point of time Mahayana was quite popular in Sri Lanka, so much so that Amoghavajra and Vajrabodhi had to visit Lanka to collect Tantrayana sutra, and even in 14th century, Dharmabhadra went to Sri Lanka - from Magadha of all places! - to investigate the meaning of Prajna under a Buddhist ascetic there.

I think the western scholars are not really looking at all the archaeological evidence. The only Buddhist caves I have visited so far are the Kanheri caves in Mumbai - and among about 90 caves for various monks, half of them are dedicated to Mahayanist and even Tantric Buddhists. Similarly, the caves found in Orissa and Andhra Pradesh show indication that it was once inhabited by both Mahayana, Hinayana and Tantric Buddhists (Andhra is thought to be the hometown of Nagarjuna and also the places from where Prajnaparamita Sutras were recovered - it also shows great influence of Naga culture with all the Naga statues found there). In any case, I believe that the conflict that Buddhists of various Yanas had was solely scholarly in nature. They were still living harmoniously together in same Buddhist cave complexes. I will be visiting Ajanta and Ellora in the near future. These caves also show sign of Mahayana influence (Avalokiteshvara statues etc) from what I have read.

PS: I would like to add that I have noticed in the historical Buddhist landscape of India, the places which were associated with Naga culture (Kashmir, Andhra, Kerala, Bengal etc) also happen to be places where Mahayana was pretty famous and Buddhism survived for longer than other parts of India.

Jnana
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Jnana » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:17 am


Greg
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Re: Rhetoric of a Marginalized Yāna

Postby Greg » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:48 pm



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