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did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation? - Dhamma Wheel

did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:52 am

vipasanna is very popular, but is it a method taught by the buddha? is there a sutta where the buddha teaches vipasanna the way he teaches anapanasati
or is this a modern method?
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:28 am

I think the Satipatthana Sutta qualifies as vipassana instruction. Or maybe there is some controversy over whether the Satipatthana Sutta is teaching vipassana?

It can be found at: Digha Nikaya 22, Majjhima Nikaya 10
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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby appicchato » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:42 am

FWIW...Buddhadasa Bhikkhu states in his book 'Handbook For Mankind' that the Buddha did not teach Vipasanna meditation, and that there is no mention of it in the Tipitaka...

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:19 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:21 am

Nice summary, Bhikkhu Pesala.... well said.

:anjali:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:38 am

"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.

"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering."
Ud 10

Perception of impermanence should be maintained in being for the elimination of the conceit "I am," since perception of not-self becomes established in one who perceives impermanence, and it is perception of not-self that arrives at the elimination of the conceit "I am," which is extinction [nibbaana] here and now. — Ud. Iv, 1/p.37

Looks like “vipassana” practice to me.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby cooran » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:17 am

Hello all,

Yes, the Buddha taught vipassana.
"I have heard that at one time the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks, saying, "Monks."
"Yes, lord," the monks responded to him.
The Blessed One said, "Monks, Sariputta is wise, of great discernment, deep discernment, wide... joyous... rapid... quick... penetrating discernment.
For half a month, Sariputta clearly saw insight [1] into mental qualities one after another. This is what occurred to Sariputta through insight into mental qualities one after another. ......"
1. "Clearly saw insight": In Pali, this is vipassanam vipassi, which could be translated literally as "clearly saw clear seeing" or "insighted insight." The Commentary states that the half month mentioned here refers to the half month between Ven. Sariputta's ordination and his attainment of arahantship, described in MN 74. These two suttas treat Sariputta's attainment from two different perspectives. This sutta shows it from the standpoint of his mastery of the four jhanas and the formless attainments based on the fourth jhana. That sutta shows it as occurring when he starts reflecting on a point while listening to a discourse that the Buddha is giving to his nephew. To put the two suttas together, we can infer that prior to the discourse given in MN 74, Sariputta had mastered the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. While listening to the discourse, he reflected on the point that the Buddha recommended abandoning all mental qualities through direct knowledge. This would have led him to the cessation of perception and feeling (during which he would not be listening to the discourse) and so to Awakening.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... n.html#n-1

and these other readings from Access to Insight:
Vipassana (insight). See also Samatha (tranquillity); Tilakkhana (three characteristics of existence).
~ is developed in tandem with samatha (tranquillity): SN 35.205, AN 2.30, AN 4.170, AN 10.71
As direct knowledge of the five aggregates (khandha):
Analyzing the five aggregates until their appeal is shattered: SN 23.2
Developing skill in applying the four noble truths to the five aggregates: SN 22.56
Developing skill in seeing seven qualities in each of the five aggregates: SN 22.57
A contemplation for every meditator, from beginner to arahant: SN 22.122
Like taking apart a lute in search of its sound: SN 35.205
As direct knowledge of the six sense bases (salayatana): MN 149
Reflection on not-self as a basis for insight: SN 22.59
"Is Vipassana the same as Theravada?" (Frequently Asked Question)
Basic Themes (Lee)
"One Tool Among Many: The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice" (Thanissaro)
"Stop and Think" in Food for Thought (Lee)
Straight From the Heart (Boowa)
Things as They Are (Boowa)
Satipatthana Vipassana: Insight Through Mindfulness (Mahasi)
"Two Styles of Insight Meditation" (Bodhi)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... #vipassana

metta
Chris
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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:00 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby clw_uk » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:21 am

Ajahn Chah talks about this ( i will have a look for the Dhamma talk)


He says that Viapssana and concentration meditations are actualy two sides of the same coin, the Buddha didnt sperate the two ( at leas in the suttas)



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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:22 pm

AN 4.94
Samadhi Sutta
Concentration (Tranquillity and Insight)
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu PTS: A ii 93

"Monks, these four types of individuals are to be found existing in the world. Which four?

"There is the case of the individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. Then there is the case of the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness. Then there is the case of the individual who has attained neither internal tranquillity of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. And then there is the case of the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"The individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, should approach an individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and ask him: 'How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained neither internal tranquillity of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, he should approach an individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated? How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way. Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, his duty is to make an effort in establishing ('tuning') those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the (mental) fermentations.

"These are four types of individuals to be found existing in the world."
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby robertk » Thu May 07, 2009 4:42 am

Vipassana is the culmination of profound insight into the nature of phenomena- it can only be known by the very wise, is subtle and even the moments of genuine satipatthan that preceed vipassana can only be experienced during a Buddha sasana.

To reply to the opening post.
The Buddha never taught vipassana as a technique, but sadly ,and I think contributing to the decline of the sasana , in recent times there are groups who have co-opted the word to mean some type of focusing on an object/objects. It is quite easy to fool people as if they quote the satipatthana sutta (which includes countless number of objects) then it is assumed the technique is 'vipassana'. However I believe little can be done to help anyone who thinks they are 'doing' vipassana, the attachment runs too deep usually.

.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby pink_trike » Thu May 07, 2009 4:50 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby robertk » Thu May 07, 2009 5:16 am

Last edited by robertk on Thu May 07, 2009 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby robertk » Thu May 07, 2009 5:28 am

Dear Pink
I now reply to your question about my statement that even moments of beginning satipattana can only arise during a buddha sasana.
First off I assume you know that only the Buddha is anatta-vadin,the teacher of anatta? If not I will provide references.
And satipatthana - the way to nibbana - is inseperable from understanding of anatta.
If at the moment that sati-sampajanna (supposedly)arises there is not the perception of anatta whatever is arising is actually some sort of imitation sati. And what is the sign of anatta - uncontrollabilty(i can provide references for this if you wish?).

Here is the section from the ancient commentary to the satiptthana sutta:

Gacchanto va gacchamiti pajanati = "When he is going (a bhikkhu) understands: 'I am going.'" In this matter of going, readily do dogs, jackals and the like, know when they move on that they are moving. But this instruction on the modes of deportment was not given concerning similar awareness, because awareness of that sort belonging to animals does not shed the belief in a living being, does not knock out the percept of a soul, and neither becomes a subject of meditation nor the development of the Arousing of Mindfulness.

Going. The term is applicable both to the awareness of the fact of moving on and to the knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities of moving on. The terms sitting, standing and lying down, too, are applicable in the general sense of awareness and in the particular sense of knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities. Here (in this discourse) the particular and not the general sense of awareness is to be taken.
From the sort of mere awareness denoted by reference to canines and the like, proceeds the idea of a soul, the perverted perception, with the belief that there is a doer and an experiencer. One who does not uproot or remove that wrong perception owing to non-opposition to that perception and to absence of contemplative practice cannot be called one who develops anything like a subject of meditation.
[I]


Thus satipatthana is profound and not easily comprehended, it cannot arise at will, and can only occur (momentarily) to those with sufficient right view.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby pink_trike » Thu May 07, 2009 5:53 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby MMK23 » Thu May 07, 2009 6:17 am


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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby Jechbi » Thu May 07, 2009 2:45 pm


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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 07, 2009 4:46 pm


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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby piotr » Thu May 07, 2009 6:26 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: did the buddha teach vipasanna meditation?

Postby robertk » Fri May 08, 2009 3:19 am



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