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Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
PeterB
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby PeterB » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:19 pm

I dont understand your reply Tilt.

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Travis » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:30 pm


PeterB
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby PeterB » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:35 pm

Of course Travis. That does not mean that I am inclined to get into debates where their literalness is an assumed given , and where one is asked to produce proof of non literalness. Or to be honest I am so inclined. I love a scrap. But I am trying to give it up.

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Travis » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:59 pm


PeterB
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby PeterB » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:28 pm

I have no idea. See " I am trying to give it up ".

:anjali:

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mikenz66
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:21 pm


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:36 am


PeterB
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:17 am

There is an assumption being made that a current position is the result of a one off decision of some kind.

I started off sceptical..then became a true Sutta believer accepting all of it as revealed religion, a position I maintained for several decades.

Then there came a process of reevaluation, a gradual letting go ( with much advance and retrenchment ) of literal views in all areas save the teachings directly concerned with practice on the cushion...that is my current position.
I have no quarrel with anyone who interprets the Suttas as science or history.
But that is not a position I can maintain for myself.
And no one in my view should should consider that they have the imprimatur of what is sound or otherwise.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:39 am

Greetings Peter,

Was "usefulness" one of the factors in your evolving process of deliberation?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

PeterB
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby PeterB » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:42 am

Probably a major factor Paul. And of course different approaches may be useful to different people at different times.

Metta...P.

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Travis » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:33 pm

Would it add anything to the discussion to equate the psychological view with nama "name" (feeling, perception, intention, contact, attention) and the cosmological view with rupa "form" (that which is dependent on the four great primaries)? In this way I suppose it would begin to relate to what I am getting at as the middle path being that view which attempts to break the mutual interdependence of consciousness and nama-rupa "name-and-form" and thus be the position that denies both "extremes." It seems like the discussion has thus far been in regards to conventional understanding of there being "the mind" and "the universe", but as I understand it by doing so it is "over-reaching" in the sense that it overlooks the gap between the two that is arguably the essential samsaric link (between consciousness and name-and-form).

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daverupa
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby daverupa » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:56 pm

Both approaches are largely consistent, one simply has fewer assumptions.

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Travis » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:50 pm

But aren't those assumptions precisely the critical issue to discuss? Maybe I just don't have enough experience on the forum to see why taking it in this direction might not prove fruitful, so I suppose I am at least in part simply "testing the water." If this is the case please let me know and I will drop the issue...

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:38 pm

Greetings Travis,

Such a line of enquiry may be fruitful... personally, I'm just not willing to dive into the nama vs rupa dichotomy on this one (given that's how the Abhidhamma proceeded in the formation of the 'paramattha dhammas').

If we're looking at the matter in this level of detail, I just want to put forward that what I have been calling the "phenomenological" approach isn't necessarily identical to the "psychological" approach that has been mentioned several times to date. "Phenomenological" pertains to 'that which is experienced', or to 'phenomena observed' (via the loka of the six senses)... whereas "psychological" experience is not necessarily the full set of that phenomenological experience (as the Buddha's five aggregate schema would suggest).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Travis » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:04 am

Thanks for the feedback, Retro.

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:25 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby daverupa » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:41 pm


pulga
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby pulga » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:47 pm

"This objectivity which gives itself in such acts of categorial intuition is itself the objective manner in which reality itself can become more objective. The exhibition of categorial structure serves to broaden the idea of objectivity such that this objectivity can itself be exhibited in its content in the investigation of the corresponding intuition. In other words, the phenomenological research which breaks through to objectivity arrives at the form of research sought by ancient ontology. There is no ontology alongside a phenomenology. Rather scientific ontology is nothing but phenomenology." (from one of Heidegger's History of the Concept of Time)

Gena1480
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Re: Buddhism: 2 kinds of approach

Postby Gena1480 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:33 pm

all reality is rooted in delusion
psychological or cosmological
this has to be seen with equal understanding
no matter if its external or internal
no matter if it is gross or sublime
the five aggregates is rooted in delusion
the path was invented so you see less functions in a experience
until you see that one or all functions is rooted in delusion
metta


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