Sudden jolt movement or emit sound while practice

[Tenpa]

Hi,
I am practicing Dzogchen. Especially in trekcho while I rest naturally whether in the laying position or sitting position it is often happened that my body suddenly jolt with emitting sound. In that moment, I feel I am not the body and witnessing all of that happening spontaneously.
What is actually happened? Is it normal or dangerous?

Hope somebody can shed light on this topic.

Tashi Deleg.

[Ayu]

Tashi Delek.
Similar things started to happen to me since my exercise became deeper. As soon there is some thought about emptyness or any other genuine thought straying through my meditation a jolt happens.
It's a little bit unconvenient when the frequency is too often. And i found out that it lessens when the meditation becomes even more deep and peaceful.
Seems to me these jolts are like a purifying act for the energie lines in the back and spinal chord. Energie has to flow and blocks have to be dissolved.

[Stewart]

Hi,
I am practicing Dzogchen. Especially in trekcho while I rest naturally whether in the laying position or sitting position it is often happened that my body suddenly jolt with emitting sound. In that moment, I feel I am not the body and witnessing all of that happening spontaneously.
What is actually happened? Is it normal or dangerous?

Hope somebody can shed light on this topic.

Tashi Deleg.

Hi Tenpa,

A couple of questions:

Do you mean a sensation like almost like falling, or everything falling away... Then you 'jolt' back to awareness? Sometimes this happens when you are falling asleep?

Who taught you Trekcho?

Best wishes,

[Tenpa]

Thankyou Ayu for your kind answer.

For Stewart.
I am student of ChNN. It is not the feeling of falling down. First time I got it, feels like high electricity running through several parts of my body. Sometimes it went for a moment that my body jiggling like a spring doll. This has happened for several months. Right now it is quite mild, but the feeling is different. The feels is just like some power explosion going out spontaneously with sound "Hah!"

[Ayu]

This reminds me of a Hindu friend. He made very loud "Hah!!!"'s in his meditation - and it became more and more. A little bit it seemed to me like he enjoyed it.
His Hinduteacher told him just to stop it. He said it is possible to controll it and it was disturbing the Sadhana.
So my friend learned to controll it, he didn't cultivate it anymore and it disolved after some month of practice.

[Tenpa]

Yes, well...I am not a Hindu.
I have read about Kundalini that kind of stuff. But I don't practice that. I just do trekcho...relax.

Just now I've done an experiment....It seems that maybe connected with some tension build up when I close my eyes (even that I did it lying down. The tension is somekind 'inner'). When I do with an open eyes, I feel that some energies are coming out from the eyes mingled with the environment. Anyone has been experiencing like this?

[byamspa]

Are you sitting in a chair by chance?

I will get this almost every time if i'm sitting in a chair with a back, and i figured out its just me starting to fall asleep. That chair back makes me really relaxed and my mind proceeds to go much faster to the 'mental gooey mush' stage. If i sit on a cushion on the floor without a back, no problems, unless i'm *really* tired. I can fall asleep sitting on the floor with a straight spine i've figured out the hard way.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

The nervous system is an odd thing.

[Dronma]

It is better to relax and let it go.
However, this is my personal opinion.
The best is to ask directly ChNN Rinpoche.

[oldbob]

It is better to relax and let it go.
However, this is my personal opinion.
The best is to ask directly ChNN Rinpoche.

Dronma's advice is exactly correct. Best to ask a real Master.

My 2 cents: whatever manifests, your job is to watch it and let it go, as it arises, without attachment or aversion. This includes all manifestations of body, speech, and mind.

If some practice is disturbing, or uncomfortable, then you relax about it and let it go, working with your circumstances and your limits.

There are many different practices to keep you busy. Many strange things can manifest in practice. You watch them and let them go.

Best,

ob

[randomseb]

A full body muscle spasm? Like a massive twitch that you feel build up and suddenly zap, kind of like an electric feeling? I get that sometimes in my lower body when laying around, but that's a nerve damage/confusion kind of bodily reaction in my case

[Tenpa]

These several days, I have been searching and studying this phenomena from the internet.
Something that attract my interest that this kind of phenomena were :
1. a kind of kriya....sudden spontaneous movement or sound when kundalini shakti is awakened.
2. a kind of Piti (joy) as a result of meditation.

My analysis :
When it comes to piti , I have known this phenomena since I have used to meditate in a theravada tradition. I know what piti feels like. And if this so, then this should be another kind of manifestation of piti.
So, I should look for the particular differences between the meditation phenomena done in theravada and vajrayana/dzogchen teaching. This make me consider that the supportive practices --which I did-- have an effect to this one. And that practice particularly is associated with the dakini (thugthig, sogthig tsedrub) practice, because it has a relationship with the power of shakti.
When I do realize this and continue my contemplation with an awareness of this phenomena, then I got several times abide into the vivid union of clarity and emptiness after the jolt. Somekind like spontaneous Phowa, or the more dramatic effect than when voluntarily uttering PHET.

Just my 2 cents.
But I glad to hear your comments, especially about the relationship between Dzogchen and a kind of Kundalini practices.

PS : I have asked ChNN. And his answer didn't come far from our discussion.

[Ayu]

...And that practice particularly is associated with the dakini (thugthig, sogthig tsedrub) practice, because it has a relationship with the power of shakti. ...

Just let me note, that "shakti" is also another word for energy. Like electricity.

And thank you for putting this topic.

[kirtu]

Yes, well...I am not a Hindu.
I have read about Kundalini that kind of stuff. But I don't practice that. I just do trekcho...relax.

Just now I've done an experiment....It seems that maybe connected with some tension build up when I close my eyes (even that I did it lying down. The tension is somekind 'inner'). When I do with an open eyes, I feel that some energies are coming out from the eyes mingled with the environment. Anyone has been experiencing like this?

What you are describing is a form of chi moving in your body (but mostly in mundane channels). This is how it would be described in Taoist practice. This is really not spoken of openly in Tibetan Buddhism. So you will need to ask your teacher immediately about what to do. These things do not always go away and can be annoying.

As you have noted, "energy" is coming out of the eyes. This is true. Keep your eyes half open during meditation. This acts like a saftey valve. Also make sure you keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth (this is like completing a circuit). Beyond that, there is a meditation to basically balance and cultivate the energy but this is not what you are doing in Dzogchen so I am reluctant to mention it. This is well known (and can even happen in Zen [with the movement]) and every tradition has their own specific recourse.

Kirt

[Tenpa]

As you have noted, "energy" is coming out of the eyes. This is true. Keep your eyes half open during meditation. This acts like a saftey valve.

Yes, you are actually right because I have done precisely like that. I was trying to look for a way to overcome the inner tension...and I found that contemplating with open eyes is actually working like a sefety valve. The jolt just didn't happened after that.
Still, I have another insight about that, but still afraid to mention that in this forum because might be influencing the readers. Basically there is something to work with as a continuation of the practice. Combination of closing and opening eyes in short sessions with short break period is what I should do. I will ask this to ChNN fot further clarification. Thankyou for all your comments.

[Salomon]

Perfectly normal to me.
You will be surprised how much your body will move on its own while your practice Trekcho. This is a kind of purification.

So don't worry and keep going until your reach the point of freedom from self.
Rely on your insights, they have been a tremendous help to me. Sometimes, you will need knowledge from others like what you are doing right now.

You are doing great. Wish you all the best.

Salomon

[Tenpa]

Thankyou Salomon.

[ClearblueSky]

What you're experiencing pretty much sounds to me like what is referred to as a hypnic jerk, which is a common experience while falling asleep. I too have jolted and let out a sound or yelp with this, be it meditating, lying in bed, or falling asleep on a long plane ride. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, and maybe as your meditation gets deeper it is in someway giving your brain/nervous system some signals that it is about to fall asleep.

[Stewart]

Perfectly normal to me.
You will be surprised how much your body will move on its own while your practice Trekcho. This is a kind of purification.

So don't worry and keep going until your reach the point of freedom from self.
Rely on your insights, they have been a tremendous help to me. Sometimes, you will need knowledge from others like what you are doing right now.

You are doing great. Wish you all the best.

Salomon

Saloman,

Be careful, you are coming across as someone who is qualified to offer advice on Trekcho, which I'm sure you are not (I come to this conclusion by reading your various comments on Trekcho)

I mean this with respect, but it is very easy to shift from the role of aspiring practitioner to someone who thinks their limited practice experience has allowed them to dispense advice to others. This can cause obstacles and false expectations for beginners. This is why in Dzogchen and Mahamudra, we rely on the Masters (or those appointed by them). Not people who have read a few books, attended a couple of retreats and attached huge importance to their 'experiences'.

What you're experiencing pretty much sounds to me like what is referred to as a hypnic jerk, which is a common experience while falling asleep. I too have jolted and let out a sound or yelp with this, be it meditating, lying in bed, or falling asleep on a long plane ride. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, and maybe as your meditation gets deeper it is in someway giving your brain/nervous system some signals that it is about to fall asleep.

If this is what you are experiencing, then my own Guru (who is qualified to offer advice) remarked to me that this is associated with the 'Dissolution of the Elements' experienced at death or simply the point of falling asleep. I got/get this very often, he advised that it was nothing to worry about, and gave me instructions. With practice this can be a valuable moment.

Best wishes,

Stewart

[Salomon]

Saloman,

Be careful, you are coming across as someone who is qualified to offer advice on Trekcho, which I'm sure you are not (I come to this conclusion by reading your various comments on Trekcho)

I mean this with respect, but it is very easy to shift from the role of aspiring practitioner to someone who thinks their limited practice experience has allowed them to dispense advice to others. This can cause obstacles and false expectations for beginners. This is why in Dzogchen and Mahamudra, we rely on the Masters (or those appointed by them). Not people who have read a few books, attended a couple of retreats and attached huge importance to their 'experiences'.

Stewart

Hello Stewart,

Well, if you look back you will be surprised. It is a matter of hours to me, how much I can change because I practice in every moment all day.
There isn't one moment without practice. So, it's not really a good idea to look back for someone like me, rather refers to what I am saying right now, it is more reliable. I would say this for all real practitioner.

I recognized myself in his practice so I gave the confirmation I would need in such a case. I wouldn't share anything without being almost sure of what I am going to say. So yes, I am careful but at the same time, real practitioners overcome obstacles, depends on people actually, this is a kind of thing you can feel when you speak to someone.