Health Impact of Celibacy

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JKhedrup
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:47 am


greentara
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby greentara » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:35 pm

jkhedrup, "Once again I was not able to get a visa to stay long term in India. I spent the summer in robes in an office, working at a travel company that took care of the arrangements of foreigners studying English in Canada. I encountered a lot of open hostility from several co-workers and managers although initially told that my robes were no problem" I'm very impressed by your story and I know how hard it is to get a long term visa for India but how fortunate you were to know what you wanted to do with your life from the early age of 14 years of age.
At the age of 14 I didn't know how, when or what to do with my life. You on the other hand were a ripe fruit right from the start.

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:04 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:21 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:47 pm


Yudron
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Yudron » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:22 pm

Two of my three main teachers are ngakpas with families and in my Dudjom sangha world we are supported and held by many other non-monastic lamas.

I'm in a funny pickle. Part of me really wants to continue to express the sensibilities of my Vajrayana tradition, and part agrees with Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche that, as I read it, we should be Mahayana practitioners in our on-line conduct... or I guess just be silent and keep our own ways hidden. So, for example when he was interviewed about his conduct, non-celibate while wearing robes and a haircut similar to a monk, he said something like "this is the degenerate age." You know he doesn't really believe that he has a fiance' because he is some kind of degenerate lama. Those aren't the values of his father, his grandfather, or of his guru. But he chooses to have a public sutrayana presentation and express other views in environments restricted to Vajrayana students.

This is difficult for me because I am a straight shooter, and I am very uncomfortable with anything that suggests a lie. Dzongsar Rinpoche's father, the great heruka, chose to live in a private community with only serious Vajrayana students around, and to be himself 24 hours a day.

It's really a conundrum in threads like this, when people are being vehement that a non-celibate lifestyle is at odds with serious practice. From my perspective this is a serious wrong view, but from the exoteric tradition it is absolutely correct.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:06 pm

Maybe it's all relative, the more expansive one's heart, the less important these conventional restrictions might be..but how many of us have so wide a heart?

I know for me sex is a distraction, not like I don't like to have it sometimes (married, with two kids gotta take those rare opportunities lol), but it also sticks in the mind long after I want it to depart and be gone. It's no different from eating rich food etc..it's just that pull is so much stronger. Personally I don't feel there are any hard and fast rules, but I do think that to some level for the vast majority of us sex is a big attachment, and one that is "networked" into so many other iterations of things we are attached to, sex plays a gigantic role in the continual construction of self identity for me.

Khedrup I liked hearing your story, thank you for sharing it. I wish people were more serious about giving in order to support monastics..as I mentioned earlier, I feel like many sort of "interested in Buddhism" people don't even comprehend just how important it is to have monastics, thinking that everyone can just sort of be a part time 'meditator' and still have the tradition go on. So hearing stories like yours gives me something to put in my pocket.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Konchog1
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:08 pm

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Adamantine
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:59 am

Konchog1: I do believe the Shravakayana pov is that sex is bad. I do not know if I agree that the default Mahayana pov is that sex is bad however. Mahayana is the path of skillful means. It is about view and motivation, primarily. With the correct view and motivation, given particular circumstances a bodhisattva may require to have sexual contact in order to be of maximum benefit to beings for various reasons. One reason may be to benefit someone who is in desperate need of that type of loving physical contact and affection. Another reason may be because it is important to give a precious human rebirth to a particular being in need, even a special being that will benefit many others, etc. Of course, having some degree of insight into what will be of maximum benefit is required, so this means some degree of realization. But because the Mahayana pov is based on the relativity of circumstances and not default external rules, it is improper to say that in the Mahayana sex is bad. And let us not forget that Vajrayana is still Mahayana, after all. . . it just takes skillful means to the next level.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Indrajala
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:43 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Indrajala
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:56 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

Sherlock
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Sherlock » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:02 am

This thread shows how little can be really discussed with regards to doctrine when people hold different teachings to be definitive.

YogaDude11
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby YogaDude11 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:21 am

The reason the Buddha said that celibacy is required is because there is a biological basis for realization. Enough energy needs to build up in the body to feed kundalini. If you reed some books by Gopi Krishna he describes how the reproductive system feeds the whole process. So that is the reason celibacy plays a role. My first mystical/kundalini experience came after a period of celibacy and I can tell there was a huge change in my practice once I put the restraints on all sexual and other activities that dissipate energy. The only way to know is try it yourself and see the difference it makes. All the yogis and sages from Hinduism, Buddhism and Daoism have laid great Emphasis on celibacy because they know that without that raw fuel you can not achieve any form of self realization. Even in the shamanic cultures of South America celibacy plays an important role in building up the Shaman's spiritual power.

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Karma Dorje » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:50 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Karma Dorje » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:00 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Adamantine
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:29 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Indrajala
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:56 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

Sherlock
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Sherlock » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:08 am


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Konchog1
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Konchog1 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:13 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Adamantine
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Re: Health Impact of Celibacy

Postby Adamantine » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:25 am

Huseng, I don't think the encouragements to not be limited by external vows of conduct were merely meant for already realized beings. They are intended for people who have both felt aversion for the suffering of samsara, and the accompanying heartfelt feelings of renunciation-- as well as some degree of foundation in sincere aspirational bodhicitta. They are provocations for those of us who have the courage to try to take these beyond a conventional safe approach towards practice and grasping to our own individual liberation . . . It is encouragement to go beyond what is safe, even risk going to the lower realms-- if it may benefit others. Even considering this, even if we don't yet have the capacity-- is meritorious.. and it is the opposite to discourage others from this approach or to act like it is not possible for our self or others. It is not hard to recognize when we are acting out of one of the 5 poisons and when compassion is our guide. The signs are evident.

You are correct in citing some Vajrayana teachers who publicly try to instill caution regarding some of the tantric practices of union yoga. It is true that it may require a high level, a higher level than you or I are at, to practice them properly.
But I am not intending to regard completion stage practice as the only reason or justification to have a sexual life as a practitioner. For instance, some people will not overcome their lust or sexual desire by avoiding it, or abstaining from it. This may fill their minds more with lust in the form of fantasy and longing. Some require the fulfillment and experience of it in order to see the impermanence of it's rewards and the futility of seeking any lasting solace there. Some may have a genuine sincere desire to offer a precious human rebirth to another, as an expression of their cultivation of the paramita of generosity. Some may perfect their paramita of generosity through the selfless giving that is required of a parent. A qualified Guru will know what the hang ups and motivations of their disciples are and advise accordingly.
Some may receive instructions from their Gurus in ways to work with their sexual life at the level that they are able to, without it being at the very high level of a great tsa-lung master. There are actually many levels of approach and practice that are possible, and in Vajrayana it is all about one's own personal Guru's instruction. What Thrangu Rinpoche says doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is what my own Guru instructs. After all, Thrangu Rinpoche is a monk. Why would I expect him to know much about the path of a Ngakpa?

I don't glorify my own capacity or experience in any way. But I do have immense faith in my teachers. If any one of them ever recommended I be celibate or even take gelong vows I would seriously consider it, I may even be relieved. But this is not the path they have prescribed. The Vajrayana path simply boils down to Guru Yoga, and the advice of the Guru is the ultimate authority. You may not accept this, but it would be considerate of you to accept that this is the path of practice of many of your Dharma brothers and sisters and to treat them and their path with the respect that they try to treat you and yours.
Last edited by Adamantine on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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