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Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element? - Dhamma Wheel

Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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Alex123
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Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:37 pm

Hello all,

in CMA (chart of pg 288 and said on pg 290) it states that nibbāna is included in dhammāyatana and dhammadhātū .

Shouldn't nibbāna be excluded from any bases (āyatana) and elements(dhātū) because they are conditioned, but nibbāna is unconditioned?


Any ideas?

Thanks,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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daverupa
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby daverupa » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:44 pm

Nibbana is not conditioned - the attainment of nibbana is conditioned.

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Alex123
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:33 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:43 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:30 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:48 am


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Alex123
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:04 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:23 am

Last edited by Vossaga (Element) on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:28 am


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:31 am


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:38 am

Last edited by Vossaga (Element) on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vossaga (Element)

Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:51 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:09 am

:focus:
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

diligence
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby diligence » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:18 am

Please keep in mind: "All sankhara (conditioned things) are impermanent; all sankhara are unsatisfactory but all dhamma are not-self".

Could you please explain why not "all sankhara" are not-self but "all dhamma" are not-self? What is the difference? :thinking:

Thank you very much!
Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Last edited by acinteyyo on Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

diligence
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby diligence » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:11 am

Sadhu! Sadhu! Thank you soooo much, acinteyyo(forgive my not knowing how to address you properly)! I've just seen your great relpy. I'll read it carefully after I come back.

:anjali:
Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

diligence
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby diligence » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:22 am

Dharma includes sankhare dhamma(conditioned dhammas) and visankhara dhamma(unconditioned dhamma, i.e. nibbana). The former is anicca, dukkha and anatta. The latter, which is nibbana, is not annicca and dukkha but also anatta.
Did I understand that correctly? (as you can see English is not my native language :embarassed: )

with metta
:anjali:
Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:20 pm

Yes, you did.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

diligence
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby diligence » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:22 am

:thanks: Sadhu! Sadhu! :anjali:
Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

Gena1480
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Re: Why is Nibbāna included in mental object base/element?

Postby Gena1480 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:55 am

condition element is impermanence, suffering, not-self, condition element is rooted in delusion
unconditioned is not-self and not rotted in delusion
what happens to delusion when some one reaches not-delusion?
what happens to samsara when someone is out of samsara?
does samsara have effect from nibbana
since nibbana has no arising an ceasing it should not effect arising and ceasing
if its effects then it seen
samsara as citta factor/object, mental factor/object and rupa factor/object
all tains is in samsara
taints are eliminated by citta
for example you have a memory of sensual desire
and you have memory of nibbana
one citta eliminated the other
so in this way nibbana can be seen is mental obect/memory of nibbana


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