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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:48 am 
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Konchog1 wrote:
Thus it said that ignorance is the greatest of faults, as it is the root of all faults.

:good:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:41 am 
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Very true. Too bad it takes understanding emptiness to get rid of ignorance ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:03 pm 
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JKhedrup wrote:
Very true. Too bad it takes understanding emptiness to get rid of ignorance ;)


In some lines of thought realization of emptiness requires mental fitness generated through dhyāna. Dhyāna requires that one sever desire (specifically sexual desire as it is generally strongest).

Therefore, in order to realize emptiness you need to sever sexual desire, which requires celibacy (mental and physical).

In terms of great compassion, as well, dhyāna is required to comprehend the suffering of the formless and form realms, the attainment of which requires celibacy.

So, as a yogic endeavour of sorts, one must sever sexual desire in order to really gain wisdom and compassion. Liberation and the bodhisattva path are only possible by halting and eliminating sexual desire.

In other words, you don't go anywhere unless you give up sex.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:37 pm 
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Huseng wrote:

In other words, you don't go anywhere unless you give up sex.


Since I know (from your previous posts) you are walking the path celibately, I was wondering if you are planning to stay a lay person or do you want to become a monk some day?

BTW, this is a sincere question. Now, it is too late for me, but I always admire people who at least try very hard.

Best, C


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:39 pm 
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Is masturbation the same as sex?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Thing with sex is that it's a very strong influence.. It grabs your mind and drags you off to all kinds of non-clarity mind frames, kind of like a drug addict jonesing for a fix. So you lose yourself.. Whether or not it has particular health benefits is beside the point, as it's the affect on your mind that causes you to start leaking mind all over the place, which the deeply spiritual practitioners of most faiths avoid by simply avoiding sex :shrug: Other "commandments" or "precepts" are for similar reasons :meditate:

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Last edited by randomseb on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Clarence wrote:
Since I know (from your previous posts) you are walking the path celibately, I was wondering if you are planning to stay a lay person or do you want to become a monk some day?


It is on the horizon.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:45 pm 
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I was asking a serious question. Maybe Rakshasa can answer me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:47 pm 
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LastLegend wrote:
Is masturbation the same as sex?


Yes, masturbation is a sexual activity motivated by desire.

Brahmacaryā (celibacy) means pure body, speech and mind. That means not dwelling on fantasies. It also means abstaining from masturbation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:47 pm 
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LastLegend wrote:
I was asking a serious question. Maybe Rakshasa can answer me.


The same biochemical reactions occur in your brain, causing you to switch your brain-mind over to the lower brain :rolling:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:59 pm 
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randomseb wrote:
Thing with sex is that it's a very strong influence.. It grabs your mind and drags you off to all kinds of non-clarity mind frames, kind of like a drug addict jonesing for a fix. So you lose yourself.. Whether or not it has particular health benefits is beside the point, as it's the affect on your mind that causes you to start leaking mind all over the place, which the deeply spiritual practitioners of most faiths avoid by simply avoiding sex :shrug: Other "commandments" or "precepts" are for similar reasons :meditate:


If you want to see how deep your addictions for sensual pleasures go, give up all sexual activities for a time (cut out the porn, masturbation and normal coupling you might do with a partner).

Most of us are perpetually intoxicated by desires, but don't realize it. We'll make excuses for it as well.

"It is okay to enjoy your food."

"Sex is only natural."

"Drinking helps me relax."

At a very deep level desire prompts rebirth. All your horrific experiences in saṃsāra are made possible by desire. Your probable future degeneration into the lower realms wouldn't occur if you remedied desire in this life. So long as kāma (desire) is active, rebirth in the desire realm, which includes the lower realms, is possible.

Hence the Buddha taught that liberation is made possible by abandoning desire. That means giving up sex. Arhats don't experience lust. If you want liberation, all mental poisons are to be remedied.

At a more basic level, though, no matter how much sex you have you'll always want more. I've had my share of wild experiences and ultimately it was unsatisfying and craving only increased. Some might argue that the emotional component is what we should look for, but that's another form of grasping and desire.

Emotion and lust are suffering and to follow them is to perpetuate a vicious cycle.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Huseng wrote:
randomseb wrote:
It grabs your mind and drags you off to all kinds of non-clarity mind frames, kind of like a drug addict jonesing for a fix. So you lose yourself..


Hence the Buddha taught that liberation is made possible by abandoning desire. That means giving up sex. Arhats don't experience lust. If you want liberation, all mental poisons are to be remedied.


What it means is giving up the desire for sex, quite so! Desire here not being the english word "desire" relating to sexual behaviors, but desire in that your mind is caught up in trying to grasp something, leaving you lost to yourself while the ego-bundle tries to feed on whatever has it hooked, and your mind essence, your buddha-essence, so to speak, is lost in the haze.


As I am fond of this particular visual metaphor, here's a good representation of what happens to your mind-space when "forms" appear, the boats being the placeholder for "you":

Peaceful mind-space:

Mind-space during "desire":

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Huseng wrote:
Clarence wrote:
Since I know (from your previous posts) you are walking the path celibately, I was wondering if you are planning to stay a lay person or do you want to become a monk some day?


It is on the horizon.


Thanks Huseng. I take it Chinese tradition would be your choice?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 pm 
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As a gentle reminder, as everyone knows, there are three views with respect to desire depending on whether you are receiving instruction on the path of renunciation, transformation or spontaneous liberation. Having said that I think that an integrated practice will eventually end up at celibacy. Although it's very difficult, there are simply too many benefits to ignore.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Vajrayana definitely has a place for celibate practitioners. Think of all the great masters from the different lineages who were monastics!

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In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:21 am 
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randomseb wrote:
What it means is giving up the desire for sex, quite so! Desire here not being the english word "desire" relating to sexual behaviors, but desire in that your mind is caught up in trying to grasp something, leaving you lost to yourself while the ego-bundle tries to feed on whatever has it hooked, and your mind essence, your buddha-essence, so to speak, is lost in the haze.


No need to muddy things.

The Buddha was quite clear that sex needs to be abandoned for liberation to be possible.

Practitioners who are serious about liberation from saṃsāra cease sexual activities.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:25 am 
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Clarence wrote:
Thanks Huseng. I take it Chinese tradition would be your choice?


No, I wouldn't fit in with the monastic culture here. There would be many problems. :smile:

If you need to know more, PM me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:09 am 
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LastLegend wrote:
Is masturbation the same as sex?
No, it's worse. Especially with porn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

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"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:18 am 
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Huseng wrote:
randomseb wrote:
What it means is giving up the desire for sex, quite so! Desire here not being the english word "desire" relating to sexual behaviors, but desire in that your mind is caught up in trying to grasp something, leaving you lost to yourself while the ego-bundle tries to feed on whatever has it hooked, and your mind essence, your buddha-essence, so to speak, is lost in the haze.


No need to muddy things.

The Buddha was quite clear that sex needs to be abandoned for liberation to be possible.

Practitioners who are serious about liberation from saṃsāra cease sexual activities.



That is not the approach in my tradition.

I wish you well Husung, the world needs more pure monks.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:51 am 
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Huseng wrote:
No need to muddy things.

The Buddha was quite clear that sex needs to be abandoned for liberation to be possible.

Practitioners who are serious about liberation from saṃsāra cease sexual activities.


Thank you

:namaste:

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