Suffering of suffering

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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amtown
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Suffering of suffering

Postby amtown » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:07 pm

I would like to discuss the suffering of suffering (pain, fear and mental distress). I have heard “Hell” being used to describe suffering (“Becoming Enlightened” by: His Holiness The Dali Lama). Science is showing more and more how much a persons perceptions play on a persons mental wellbeing (“Your mind creates your world.”) So my take is that suffering of mental distress will cause mental illness such as Bipolar, Schizophrenia, AHDH and so on. What can be done to reverse this “Hell”?
Adem

PeterB
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby PeterB » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:30 pm

There are a few assumptions there that need unpacking Adem.
Firstly there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia and certain other conditions are not " mental " illnesses . They are physical illnesses with a mental component. On a par with diabetes.
Secondly the word often translated as suffering is " dukkha" and believe me you can and perhaps should spend a while acquainting yourself with its subtleties.
Try putting dukkha in the forum search engine for example.
And stand back...... :smile:

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amtown
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby amtown » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:44 pm

You are correct in the fact I know little about the different types of sufferings, and yes bipolar and other illnesses are in fact symptoms of a physical nature but wouldn’t you agree the severity of the condition is determined by life experience and a persons perceptions of the experience. My questions are vague in an attempt at making them short. I guess my real question would be how would you go about changing damage done to exacerbate a condition such as Bipolar. Meaning if there is “suffering” from a condition that may have been brought on from a past existence that may be causing us to accumulate more negative karma. Is a physical condition going to continue this cycle of negative Karma or is there a way to break this cycle? If my thinking is way off I would love some recourses to check out if you know of any, thanx!
Adem

PeterB
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby PeterB » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:02 pm

I would suggest to a person with Bipolar for example that they firstly cooperate with their medical regime. And that they explore samatha meditation. Which is a form of meditation which over time leads to calm mind states . I would recommend that ideally they learn this meditation with hands-on instruction.

:anjali:

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daverupa
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby daverupa » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:49 pm


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amtown
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby amtown » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:17 pm

I really need to get a better understanding of Buddhism. I still have a very one dimensional grasp on it and I don’t think I fully realize the depth. Thou there aren’t many English speaking temples or meditation centers in the immediate area thanks to you guys I will be looking for one. Any ideas on how to find a temple or meditation center would be appreciated.
Adem

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daverupa
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby daverupa » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:29 pm


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altar
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby altar » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:56 am

This is an extremely relevant sutta to your query, regarding perception and illness. below is a chanting of it and description from pirith.org.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

http://pirith.org/download/girimananda.mp3

"The best Pirith Chanting I heard was by a small boy call Dhammaruwan, which is something special. The recording quality is poor, but I tried my best to filter it and make it of better quality.
Dhammaruwan Story :
Dhammaruwan was born in a small village near Kandy , Sri Lanka in November, 1968. From the age of about two, before he could read or write , he spontaneously started to chant the ancient Buddhist scriptures in the original pali language , known only to a few scholar monks.

Each day, somewhere around two o'clock in the morning, after sitting in meditation with his adopted and devoted Buddhist foster father for about twenty to forty minutes, he would spontaneously start to chant pali suttas. On the Poya or lunar Observance day, he would sometimes chant for two hours."

Dhammaruwan's foster father started making amateur recording of the chanting and invited prominent scholar monk to listen. The monk verified that it was indeed the ancient pali language and the boy were chanting it in an ancient style which no longer existed in world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


metta.
Last edited by altar on Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

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ground
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby ground » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:23 am

Guess one should investigate into the delimitation "physical illnesses with a mental component" and "mental illnesses with a physical component".

In the same vein "suffering of suffering", "suffering of change" and "suffering of conditionality" which seem to be just aspects of "one whole mass" of dukkha.


Kind regards

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Ben
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby Ben » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:36 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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altar
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby altar » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:04 pm

What does cooperation have to do with this?
I was in a psych ward and 2 "therapeutic farms" because of coersion. I capitulated to going and going along with the medicine (although forbearingly, against my will, and got off them).
you may say my situation was different b/c it was insane having me there..., then again others have their personal stories/were brought there in their own or other circumstances.
Besides my other post, which gives a buddhist take of perception and illness, it should be asked if we would want to "reverse" this process. Unravel is more like it.
What is done is done.
In buddhism, as I told my doctor at the farm, there are three poisons: greed, hatred, and delusion. Delusion is the most blameworthy and hardest to get rid of.
I have since encountered him on the beach and he has laid down the profession.

May i be forgiven for any transgressions or negligence before the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the 4fold Sangha.

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Suffering of suffering

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:04 am

I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!


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