Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby muni » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 am

Jamkar wrote:I wonder if this advice actually covers dzogchen, chod and tantra discussed here? not to say anything but just curious of what you guys think

personally, i think he wont be amused when he reads the contents of those sections.



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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Clarence » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:32 pm

I thought this was a pretty interesting response:

http://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/


Far be it for Japhy to tell Dzongsar Khyentse how to do Facebook, but it is Japhy’s opinion that Rinpoche needs to pump his breaks on his so-called Social Media Guidelines.

“With all due respect, If Dzongsar doesn’t like what he’s seeing in his Facebook stream, that’s entirely on Rinpoche, and of no concern to us.”

Given how Dzongsar Khyentse’s latest book, which Japhy loves, “Not for Happiness,” is in an open invitation to anyone intent on misappropriating the Vajrayana, perhaps Rinpoche should focus his attention on a code of conduct for Rinpoches.

“Personally, I’ve never received anything from Khenpo Karthar, or any other Rinpoche, that can’t be shared. I haven’t a clue what he feels needs protection.”

Clearly, as far as Japhy can tell, Dzongsar has had his fill of people he has friended on Facebook that share with him what he believes shouldn’t be shared.

“A fish rots from the head. We aren’t the problem. The problem of over sharing of the Vajrayana begins and ends with the Rinpoches.”

Not to put too fine a point on this, if Dzongsar Khyentse has friended people on Facebook who post Tantric images, mantras and syllables, nobody has forced Rinpoche to follow these people.

“I’m not a big fan of this either, but its none of my business. This is the slippery slope that Dzongsar has stepped onto.”

As far as Japhy is concerned, the last thing we need in Social Media, are cohorts sticking their noses into the streams of each other.

“This is an open invitation for us to find fault with each other. Thanks, but no thanks Rinpoche.”

If you read Dzongsar Khyentse’s guidelines, Rinpoche wants to prohibit Japhy and his cohorts from even mentioning empowerments, public events, they have attended.

“Perhaps somebody needs to remind Dzongsar of a little thing we Americans call free speech. I’m nobody’s serf. That’s just offensive, Rinpoche going there.

Any of Dzongsar Khyentse’s guidelines that advises Japhy and his cohorts to not talk about something, is a non-starter, from the get go, as far as Japhy is concerned.

“I think the world of Dzongsar, but over my dead body. He will have to pry my iPhone from my dead fingers.”

The bit about ego and spiritual materialism, Chogyam Trungpa’s response to the posers he surrounded himself with in Boulder, doesn’t apply to Japhy and his cohorts.

“It’s like accusing me of hiding a unicorn in my shorts. That kind of talk has no basis in reality.”

Long story short, as far as Japhy can tell, all of Dzongsar Khyentse’s “don’ts” are the “d’ohs” of the people he follows on Facebook.

“I get how much Facebook sucks. I don’t Facebook.”

Japhy remembers when he and his cohorts once entertained the benefits of Tibetan feudalism as a support for their Vajrayana Practice.

“We chose otherwise. It isn’t for us. We have rights. We don’t want anything to do with people telling us to shut up and do as we’re told. Period.”

The first thing Japhy learned from Khenpo Karthar was to keep his nose out of the business of his cohorts.

“What other people are doing is none of my business. We all have to make our own mistakes.”

Dzongsar Khyentse needs to clean up his Facebook accounts, if he has issues with the crap people he has friended on Facebook are sharing with him.

“Otherwise, sharpen your pitchfork and grab a torch, it’s time for a good old fashioned witch hunt.”

Japhy has pushed the envelope here. He knows he has said too much, yet again. Somebody has to push back on this unfortunately. It can’t be allowed to stand.
“There are too many cohorts that want nothing more than to foist a code of conduct like Dzongsar Khyentse’s upon their coreligionists.”

Japhy is here today sharing his experiences with his cohorts online because he refused to be cowed by those of his cohorts that resisted his call for transparency.

“They tried, but Khenpo Karthar refused to back them.”

Japhy knows this is much ado over nothing, Dzongsar Khyentse’s Facebook update, and nothing he needs to concern himself with personally.

“It’s Chinatown, Jake. Forget about it.”

It has provided Japhy though with an excuse to embarrass himself yet again. Other than the satisfaction of being entertaining, Japhy has no excuse for anything he has written here. Karmapa Chenno.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Karinos » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:16 pm

Japhy :thumbsup:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Yudron » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:58 pm

Clarence wrote:I thought this was a pretty interesting response:

http://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/


Far be it for Japhy to tell Dzongsar Khyentse how to do Facebook, but it is Japhy’s opinion that Rinpoche needs to pump his breaks on his so-called Social Media Guidelines.

“With all due respect, If Dzongsar doesn’t like what he’s seeing in his Facebook stream, that’s entirely on Rinpoche, and of no concern to us.”

Given how Dzongsar Khyentse’s latest book, which Japhy loves, “Not for Happiness,” is in an open invitation to anyone intent on misappropriating the Vajrayana, perhaps Rinpoche should focus his attention on a code of conduct for Rinpoches.

“Personally, I’ve never received anything from Khenpo Karthar, or any other Rinpoche, that can’t be shared. I haven’t a clue what he feels needs protection.”

Clearly, as far as Japhy can tell, Dzongsar has had his fill of people he has friended on Facebook that share with him what he believes shouldn’t be shared.

“A fish rots from the head. We aren’t the problem. The problem of over sharing of the Vajrayana begins and ends with the Rinpoches.”

Not to put too fine a point on this, if Dzongsar Khyentse has friended people on Facebook who post Tantric images, mantras and syllables, nobody has forced Rinpoche to follow these people.

“I’m not a big fan of this either, but its none of my business. This is the slippery slope that Dzongsar has stepped onto.”

As far as Japhy is concerned, the last thing we need in Social Media, are cohorts sticking their noses into the streams of each other.

“This is an open invitation for us to find fault with each other. Thanks, but no thanks Rinpoche.”

If you read Dzongsar Khyentse’s guidelines, Rinpoche wants to prohibit Japhy and his cohorts from even mentioning empowerments, public events, they have attended.

“Perhaps somebody needs to remind Dzongsar of a little thing we Americans call free speech. I’m nobody’s serf. That’s just offensive, Rinpoche going there.

Any of Dzongsar Khyentse’s guidelines that advises Japhy and his cohorts to not talk about something, is a non-starter, from the get go, as far as Japhy is concerned.

“I think the world of Dzongsar, but over my dead body. He will have to pry my iPhone from my dead fingers.”

The bit about ego and spiritual materialism, Chogyam Trungpa’s response to the posers he surrounded himself with in Boulder, doesn’t apply to Japhy and his cohorts.

“It’s like accusing me of hiding a unicorn in my shorts. That kind of talk has no basis in reality.”

Long story short, as far as Japhy can tell, all of Dzongsar Khyentse’s “don’ts” are the “d’ohs” of the people he follows on Facebook.

“I get how much Facebook sucks. I don’t Facebook.”

Japhy remembers when he and his cohorts once entertained the benefits of Tibetan feudalism as a support for their Vajrayana Practice.

“We chose otherwise. It isn’t for us. We have rights. We don’t want anything to do with people telling us to shut up and do as we’re told. Period.”

The first thing Japhy learned from Khenpo Karthar was to keep his nose out of the business of his cohorts.

“What other people are doing is none of my business. We all have to make our own mistakes.”

Dzongsar Khyentse needs to clean up his Facebook accounts, if he has issues with the crap people he has friended on Facebook are sharing with him.

“Otherwise, sharpen your pitchfork and grab a torch, it’s time for a good old fashioned witch hunt.”

Japhy has pushed the envelope here. He knows he has said too much, yet again. Somebody has to push back on this unfortunately. It can’t be allowed to stand.
“There are too many cohorts that want nothing more than to foist a code of conduct like Dzongsar Khyentse’s upon their coreligionists.”

Japhy is here today sharing his experiences with his cohorts online because he refused to be cowed by those of his cohorts that resisted his call for transparency.

“They tried, but Khenpo Karthar refused to back them.”

Japhy knows this is much ado over nothing, Dzongsar Khyentse’s Facebook update, and nothing he needs to concern himself with personally.

“It’s Chinatown, Jake. Forget about it.”

It has provided Japhy though with an excuse to embarrass himself yet again. Other than the satisfaction of being entertaining, Japhy has no excuse for anything he has written here. Karmapa Chenno.



I'd like to point out that Rinpoche posted this as his own "status" on FB--so presumably he was speaking to people connected to him--who are in the thousands. It was I who reposted it here on DW, because it was interesting.

In addition I would like to point out that they are suggested guidelines, not proposed laws. As far as I can tell from my FB feed, they have had no significant effect.

It's an interesting idea that empowerments are public events, and perhaps we could consider reframing them when we organize them for the lamas.

As I understand it, the restricted teachings Khenpo Kartar's tradition, such as one of the volumes of the Karma Chagme's Mountain Retreat, and many empowerments of the tradition, are given only in his three year retreat center in Delhi. That's one way of doing it.

As a side note, I spent the whole day yesterday at a Compassion Research Day at Facebook Headquarters in Menlo Park, California. It was really interesting.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:29 pm

Who the f*ck is "Japhy" and why would I take their advice over Dzongsar Khyentse's? :shrug:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby justsit » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:12 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Who the f*ck is "Japhy" and why would I take their advice over Dzongsar Khyentse's? :shrug:

:thumbsup:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Clarence » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:13 pm

Hi Yudron,

I understand where you are coming from and see your points.

I just thought it was an interesting take (especially since it was a different one from the rest of this forum) and there are actually things in there I agree with.

Best,

Clarence

P.S. Your blog has been awfully quiet for some time now.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:21 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Who the f*ck is "Japhy" and why would I take their advice over Dzongsar Khyentse's? :shrug:

As the article says: "the satisfaction of being entertaining".

Amusing, at any rate.

EDIT: Provided, that is, that you are, it seems, a crotchety old man who enjoys p*ssing in Rinpoches' cereal in the morning for kicks. To each their own, but I'd mind my karma for sure.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Yudron » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:11 pm

Clarence wrote:Hi Yudron,

I understand where you are coming from and see your points.

I just thought it was an interesting take (especially since it was a different one from the rest of this forum) and there are actually things in there I agree with.

Best,

Clarence

P.S. Your blog has been awfully quiet for some time now.


The author of that blog is a student in a Dharma system that has a strong monastic hierarchy. I can imagine being exasperated, dealing with a system that does not share a lot of our values as Americans. I don't personally like how he is choosing to deal with it, by doing a kind of angry comedy about his issues, but I understand.

My blog is silent because I'm writing a novel for teens right now, to get them interested in the Vajrayana. I may just start writing about writing.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Silent Bob » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:31 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Who the f*ck is "Japhy" and why would I take their advice over Dzongsar Khyentse's? :shrug:


:twothumbsup:

And as I mentioned in a note I posted on "Japhy's" blog, a couple thousand of the "poseurs Trungpa Rinpoche surrounded himself with in Boulder" completed the full Karma Kagyu ngondro, a commitment that is pretty effective at weeding out dilettantes and lightweights.

Chris
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Salomon » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:40 pm

I don't like the tone of the "suggested" guide lines.
It is clear to me that there is a potential harm because of the patronization behind the words. Talking to people this way has never felt good to anyone.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:42 pm

Open Intelligence wrote:patronization

DKR is authorized to precisely be a "patron" of the dharma.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Salomon » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:53 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:DKR is authorized to precisely be a "patron" of the dharma.


Yes, but not the meaning I was refering into. "To treat in a condescending manner."
You can as you say be a patron and show kindness and softness without this powerful harmful kind of disregard superiority.

Also, it would be great to tell why exactly this behavior is not right in such and such case like for example showing this kind of picture.
In my case, on facebook many people ask me questions and are really interested from what I am doing. It's not really what you are doing but how you are doing it.

So, he may be right in some cases, but it seems to me that it is quite an extreme to be so clear-cut.

Edit: Correction
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Clarence » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:05 pm

Yudron wrote:The author of that blog is a student in a Dharma system that has a strong monastic hierarchy. I can imagine being exasperated, dealing with a system that does not share a lot of our values as Americans. I don't personally like how he is choosing to deal with it, by doing a kind of angry comedy about his issues, but I understand.

My blog is silent because I'm writing a novel for teens right now, to get them interested in the Vajrayana. I may just start writing about writing.


I think he hits some important issues we western Vajrayana practitioners have to grapple with. Also, I think there is less comedy than he wants us to believe. That said, I don't think he is really angry either. I think he writes about what he sees are real problems and impediments to the growth and growing up of Vajrayana Buddhism in the west.
BTW, no one else has to think about his posts like I do. I do think I should be able to post his ideas/blog and have it judged on content--and not just style.

Ah, sounds great to write such a book. If what you write here is any indication, I am sure your novel will be great.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby heart » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:08 pm

I am actually very pleased that DJKR take the time to hit me in the head with this article. I feel a bit dazed and confused but not exactly dead yet. So please bring on the full power of your compassion now Rinpoche.

/magnus
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby futerko » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:28 pm

Japhy is the name of the Zen Buddhist character in Kerouac's book "The Dharma Bums" so he does represent that American take on things, maybe something more appropriate to Americanised Zen than Tibetan Lamas - I get the image that DKR used of himself sitting on his high throne and not wanting to give up certain priveledges and luxuries for the sake of appearances - the idea that neurosis about such things in either direction is a worldly concern.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:04 pm

If you think that your guru's speech should always be "kindness and softness" then Vajrayana is not for you.

I have attended dharma talks in rooms where the lion's roar was hot enough to roast a marshmallow.

It's not a question of respect but of basic sanity. Does this guy seriously want to swap resumes with DKR? It's not funny. As someone once said, I pity the fool.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Karinos » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:20 pm

here is another humorous criticism:

Image


PS. no, I did not make this poster :)

not sure how to make it smaller :/
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:45 pm

I actually thought Rinpoches advice was quite reasonable, but I do wonder something. Is it possible that a part of Rinpoches disapproval of facebook behavior might be due not the people exactly, but to the medium itself?

Facebook lends itself to trivialization of everything, there is no subject that can be discussed on FB and not somehow be trivialized because that is the nature of it as a medium. The only "right way" to communicate about something with discretion on FB is simply to communicate about it less on FB, the format and delivery trivializes substantial things.

If you don't know what i'm talking about, find one of your friends who you know as an otherwise intelligent person, see if they've posted anything politically or otherwise controversial, andif people have bothered commenting on it. It seems to me that even with very smart people, with the best of intentions, the format makes meaningful exchange painful, FB is by nature about making things "lite" and mundane, and making you neurotically check them.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse's Advice for Social Media

Postby Punya » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:47 pm

Re the humorous citicism: Yes, well that's one way of looking at it but maybe DJKR is trying to steer us to the middle ground! :smile:
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