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New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:45 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby cooran » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:47 am

Hello David, all,

Khuddaka Nikaya
The Dhammapada Stories
Translated by Daw Mya Tin, M.A.,
Burma Pitaka Association (1986)
Source: http://www.nibbana.com
________________________________________
Chapter XV: Happiness (Sukhavagga)
-ooOoo-
Verse 197 to 199
XV (1) The Story of the Pacification of the Relatives of the Buddha
The Buddha uttered Verse (197) to (199) of this book, in the Sakyan country, with reference to his relatives who were quarrelling over the use of the water from the Rohini river.

Kapilavatthu the town of the Sakyans and Koliya the town of the Kolyans were situated on either side of the Rohini river. The cultivators of both towns worked the fields watered by the Rohini river. One year, they did not have enough rain and finding that the paddy and other crops were beginning to shrivel up, cultivators on both sides wanted to divert the water from the Rohini river to their own fields. Those living in Koliya said that there was not enough water in the river for both sides, and that if only they could channel the water just once more to their fields that would be enough for the paddy to mature and ripen. On the other hand, people from Kapilavatthu argued that, in that case, they would be denied the use of the water and their crops would surely fail, and they would be compelled to buy from other people. They said that they were not prepared to go carrying their money and valuables to the opposite bank of the river in exchange for food.

Both sides wanted the water for their own use only and there was much ill will between them due to abusive language and accusations on both sides. The quarrel that started between the cultivators came to the ears of the ministers concerned, and they reported the matter to their respective rulers, and both sides prepared to go to war.

The Buddha, surveying the world with his supernormal powers, saw his relatives on both sides of the river coming out to meet in battle and he decided to stop them. All alone, he went to them by going through the sky, and stopped immediately above the middle of the river. His relatives seeing him, powerfully and yet peacefully sitting above them in the sky, hid aside all their weapons and paid obeisance to the Buddha.

Then, the Buddha said to them, "For the sake of some water, which is of little value, you should not destroy your lives which are of so much value and priceless. Why have you taken this stupid action? If I had not stopped you today, your blood would have been flowing like a river by now. You live hating your enemies, but I have none to hate; you are ailing with moral defilements, but I am free from them; you are striving to have sensual pleasures, but I do not strive for them."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 197: Indeed we live very happily, not hating anyone among those who hate; among men who hate we live without hating anyone.
Verse 198: Indeed we live very happily, in good health among the ailing; among men who are ailing we live in good health.
Verse 199: Indeed we live very happily, not striving (for sensual pleasures) among these who strive (for them); among those who strive (for them) we live without striving.

At the end of the discourse many people attained Sotapatti Fruition.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... /dhp/i.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby dreamov » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:48 am


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Ben
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:49 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Dan74
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby Dan74 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:50 am

Last edited by Dan74 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:50 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:52 am

Greetings Ben,

How do you define "criticizing his behaviour"?

I am not saying he has done anything wrong.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:54 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:59 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:15 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:40 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:45 am

Hi Retro,
What would be more convincing is if you could produce sutta, vinaya (or god-forbid commentarial) sources unequivocally proscribing the sorts of activities Bhikkhu Bodhi is engaged in.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:55 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:10 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:32 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby zavk » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:03 am

Hi friends

It's been a while since I last posted (though I do read the threads occasionally). Anyway, if I may share my thoughts.

Leaving aside the question of whether Bhikkhu Bodhi is faithful to the guidelines found in the canon or not, perhaps we ought to keep in mind that the interview [I assume] is published for a general, lay audience. So perhaps a more skilful approach is to pay attention to--to reflect on; to be mindful of--our feelings and reactions as we engage with the interview, rather than speculate on questions that could be debated ad infinitum. (This is not to say that the arguments from both sides of the debate here are 'wrong'; rather, it seems to me that they both have their merits and that there is not easy way to settle the matter once and for all).

To my reading, regardless of whether Bhikkhu Bodhi is properly honouring his duties as a renunciant or not, he is raising questions that are relevant to us laypeople. Like it or not, we are enmeshed in this-worldly affairs. Of course, I am aware that we ought to develop a healthy detachment to worldly affairs--I do not deny that. However, it IS the case that our practice does not unfold in a vacuum. The environments in which we are in have an impact on how we cultivate the Dhamma. So yes, while it is arguable that the Buddha did not teach 'engaged Buddhism' as we know it today, learning how to be 'involved' or 'engaged' could be a means for us contemporary folks to develop the Dhamma.

I'm not suggesting that we all start to participate in this or that political group or whatever--and I don't think Bhikkhu Bodhi is suggesting this in highlighting the need to be 'involved.' There's no need to get heavily involved in partisan political movements. As Retro points out, such activities can be counterproductive insofar as they encourage unwholesomeness. Rather, depending on our circumstances, we could find ways to develop good intentions, ways to honour our commitment to the paramis. So something as simple as deciding not to consume a certain product (e.g. unethically produced coffee or whatever) could become a means for us to develop the Dhamma, even as we seek to detach from worldliness.

This is how I'd read Bhikkhu Bodhi's suggestions; this is the contribution I find in the interview. As to whether he is being faithful to his duties as a renunciant or not, I'll leave the question open and let others decide. My preference is to reflect on how I can make best use of the views he offers to honour my own commitment to the Three Jewels which, for me as a layperson, cannot be divorced from the broader social, cultural, and political conditions that frame my practice. Given this to be the case, I may as well make best use of my circumstances, finding whatever opportunities I can to cultivate the Dhamma. For me, I'm fortunate enough to be able to share what I can with the students I encounter at the university. I also do what I can to share with my friends via social media--all these are cultivated alongside my attempts to 'turn inwards'. To this end, it is good to know that venerables like Bhikkhu Bodhi are supportive of my efforts, because we can't really cultivate the Dhamma alone without the encouragement and support of admirable friends, can we?

:anjali: :group: :smile:
With metta,
zavk

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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby PeterB » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:15 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:20 am


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Re: New Bhikkhu Bodhi Interview

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:26 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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