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 Post subject: Consciousness and Wisdom
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Hello dear Dzogchen readers, :)

I thought that it would be good to take into consideration:
How to distinguish Consciousness and Wisdom. :D

Best wishes with our practice
Kalden Yungdrung

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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Excellent to consider this distinction between Consciousness and Wisdom.
The deluded Consciousness must be transformed into Wisdom.
Does the distinction then end?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:06 pm 
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swampflower wrote:
Excellent to consider this distinction between Consciousness and Wisdom.
The deluded Consciousness must be transformed into Wisdom.
Does the distinction then end?



Tashi Delek Swampflower, :D

Thanks for your reply.

We mainly deal here with Dzogchen and not with Tantra where we have to transform something.
At first is meant here the places where the 2 kind of conciousnesseses do abide

General seen moves the wind through the whole body by the functioning of the lungs.
So conciousness abides in the whole body, in particular in the channel connected to the lungs, to wind.

At the same time when this channel is filled with wind it is connected to the heart.
The heart is the the place where the conciousness mainly abides.
Mental conciousness is connected with the brain.

The heart is so the main abode of the conciousness and the wind moves and shakes it. so conciousness is connected with wind, very subtle wind and deep conciousness.

This connection develops with the 8 conciousnesses and the 51 subtle conciousssnes.
The wind is like a blind horse and inside the chanel conciousness is like a criple who cannot walk.
The criple guides the horse and the horse carries the man and together they are able to work.


Part two deals with the self originated wisdom.


Best wishes for our practice
Kalden Yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Part two:

Self originated wisdom.

We can see from outside to inside and from inside to outside via the Kati channel.
We have four lamps and the fourth lamp is called the lamp of self originated Wisdom and while gazing at visions the natural State must be stable not agitated or disturbed then that situation or awareness is called the Lamp of Self originated Wisdom.

So here are explained the conciousness and the Self originated Wisdom which have different channels as their working base.

We do not transform here like we do in Tantra, but make use of different channels to let flow this self originated Wisdom.

Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Part three:

The actual difference.

The visions are not seen by the eye conciousness.
Here we have the main difference between conciousness and the visions of the Self originated Wisdom.


Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Oh, yes I was considering this question with a Tantric perspective.
I can see that with the wind channel method in the Dzogchen perspective that the Consciousness and the Wisdom exist side by side, is this correct?
Is there a merging rather than a transforming?

The actual difference seems to use the Wisdom to realize the visions as manifestations of emptiness, being devoid of intrinsic existence. This is the realization of Method and Wisdom in one moment?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:53 pm 
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swampflower wrote:
Oh, yes I was considering this question with a Tantric perspective.
I can see that with the wind channel method in the Dzogchen perspective that the Consciousness and the Wisdom exist side by side, is this correct?
Is there a merging rather than a transforming?

The actual difference seems to use the Wisdom to realize the visions as manifestations of emptiness, being devoid of intrinsic existence. This is the realization of Method and Wisdom in one moment?



Hello Swampflower,

The wisdom is SELF ORIGINATED due to be able to abide in ones Natural State.
Here one does not see with the eye conciousness.
The eye balls are in fact allways a death matter and depend or on the eye conciousness or on the self originated Wisdom. These are two separete channels.

Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Thank you Kalden Yungdrung.
I have much to learn!
:anjali:

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:51 pm 
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swampflower wrote:
Thank you Kalden Yungdrung.
I have much to learn!
:anjali:


Tashi delek Swampflower, :)

Thanks for your reply.

You are welcome! :D

On all learning comes and end when one can understand that
By knowing one thing one can understand all there is.
Then comes the realisation of that
And here is ending all that learning.

Sutra = conduct / foundation
Tantra = meditation
Dzogchen = the Vision / Awareness
That is / can be, the gradual way

Best wishes for your individual practice
Kalden yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:51 pm 
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swampflower wrote:
Thank you Kalden Yungdrung.
I have much to learn!
:anjali:


Tashi delek Swampflower, :)

Thanks for your reply.

You are welcome!

On all learning comes and end when one can understand that
By knowing one thing one can understand all there is.
Then comes the realisation of that
And here is ending all that learning.

Sutra = conduct
Tantra = meditation
Dzogchen = the Vision / awareness
That is the gradual way

Best wishes for your individual practice
Kalden yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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