Doesn't emptiness apply to conditioned things, since it's impossible to apply anything to the unconditioned - by definition?
Empiness cannot be aplied to Nirvana since Nirvana is unconditioned,hence why we(Shentong) say all conditioned things is empty,but Nirvana(the unconditioned) is not empty.
So a statement like "you're saying Nirvana is empty" is nonsensical, because emptiness can only apply to conditioned things
but you see the "Nirvana is empty" is actually the Rantong view and is the view that Greg,Astus,futuro are defending,so if you disagree with them why are you debateing against me?
Once I start applying labels and conceptual thought to them - such as saying Nirvana is inherently arisen, then I am now in fact, describing something which is empty of inherent existence. If it was not, I could look at the thing, and I would find the "Nirvananess" there, which I can't once I label or even conceptualize it.
that which is inherently arisen is unconditioned not brought into being and not dependently originated(Nirvana),that which is dependently arisen is conditioned and is brought into being through the conditions of dependent origination(Samsara)
Now concerning finding the "Nirvananess there" tell me can a blind man see the color red?
likewise every Buddhist Mahayana sutra will tell you the blind man(man that is of dependently originated Samsara) cannot see the color red(Enlightenment)
for only Enlightenement experiences Enlightenement the "I" or "you" is not and cannot ever be Enlightened the "you" is always apart of Samsara(it is the fire going out)
This seems to accord even with Pali Canon views of enlightenment as a fire going out etc...it can not be described in conditional terms, as it is lack of conditionality (lol is that a word).
AGREED the Fire that is going out is "you" the dependently originated self that is apart of Samsara hence this "false existance" ceases
anouther analogy is the wood(dependently originated Samsaraic human) is burned with the fire(the path to end Samsara),both the fire and wood cease to exist what is left is the Ashes(Enlightenement)this accords with the Pali Canon view of the Raft being left behind as one crosses over to the other shore.(the samsaric being ceases and th path that was used ceases what is left is the unceaseing the unconditioned the not brought into being Enlightenment)
If it is truth that NIrvana/BN/Dharmakaya/whatever is inherently existent, what are it's qualities?
well ALL words used to discribe anything is based on duality,they very purpose of words is to seperate one thing from anouther(hence all words themselves are a dualality) so no matter what words are used by any of us to describe what IS nirvana or what IS NOT Nirvana will always be based on the duality of he words themselves.
BUT I have a list of qualities which come from page 226 from Dolpopas Mountain Doctrine
the list itself is pretty long so I will post it when I can find a link for the material that i can use to copy and paste from(otherwise i will have to type it all out by hand)
Peace and Love