Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

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Jainarayan
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Jainarayan » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:45 pm

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

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rachmiel
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby rachmiel » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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futerko
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby futerko » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:47 pm


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Jainarayan
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Jainarayan » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:53 pm

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

Son of Buddha
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Son of Buddha » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:55 pm


Son of Buddha
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Son of Buddha » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:02 pm


lowlydog
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby lowlydog » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:08 pm


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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby songhill » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:21 pm


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futerko
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby futerko » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:00 pm


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Matt J
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Matt J » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:35 pm

The Great Way is not difficult
If only there is no picking or choosing
--- Xin Xin Ming


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Jainarayan
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Jainarayan » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:54 pm

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

Lotus_Bitch
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Lotus_Bitch » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:58 pm

Many meditators know how to meditate,
But only a few know how to dismantle [mental clinging].
- Je Gyare

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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Lotus_Bitch » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:09 pm

Many meditators know how to meditate,
But only a few know how to dismantle [mental clinging].
- Je Gyare

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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Lotus_Bitch » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:36 pm

Many meditators know how to meditate,
But only a few know how to dismantle [mental clinging].
- Je Gyare

lowlydog
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby lowlydog » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:42 pm

Hi Lotus_Bitch,

consciousness is the present moment, I am consciousness, consciousness is space, it is always the present moment, present moment can not die and is eternal. sense consciousness is impermanent as described in the sutta you provided, conscious consciousness (formless consciousness)is eternal and cannot be understood through thought it must be realized. The watcher is the watched.

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 pm


xabir
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby xabir » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 pm

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/2 ... sutta.html

Zen Priest Alex Weith:

(excerpts)

...This also means that the first step is to disembed from impermanent phenomena until the only thing that feels real is this all pervading uncreated all pervading awareness that feels like the source and substance of phenomena. Holding on to it after this realization can hower become a subtle form of grasping diguised as letting go.

The second step is therefore to realize that this brightness, awakeness or luminosity is there very nature of phenomena and then only does the duality between the True Self and the appearences arising and passing within the Self dissolve, revealing the suchness of what is.

The next step that I found very practical is to push the process of deconstruction a step further, realizing that all that is experienced is one of the six consciousness. In other words, there is neither a super Awareness beyond phenomena, not solid material objects, but only six streams of sensory experiences. The seen, the heard, the sensed, the tasted, the smelled and the cognized (including thoughts, emotions, and subtle thougths like absorbtion states, jhanas).

At this point it is not difficult to see how relevent the Bahiya Sutta can become ...

.............

What I realized also is that authoritative self-realized students of direct students of both Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj called me a 'Jnani', inviting me to give satsangs and write books, while I had not yet understood the simplest core principles of Buddhism. I realized also that the vast majority of Buddhist teachers, East and West, never went beyond the same initial insights (that Adhyashanti calls "an abiding awakening"), confusing the Atma with the ego, assuming that transcending the ego or self-center (ahamkara in Sanskrit) was identical to what the Buddha had called Anatta (Non-Atma).

It would seem therefore that the Buddha had realized the Self at a certain stage of his acetic years (it is not that difficult after all) and was not yet satisfied. As paradoxical as it may seem, his "divide and conquer strategy" aimed at a systematic deconstruction of the Self (Atma, Atta), reduced to -and divided into- what he then called the five aggregates of clinging and the six sense-spheres, does lead to further and deeper insights into the nature of reality. As far as I can tell, this makes me a Buddhist, not because I find Buddhism cool and trendy, but because I am unable to find other teachings and traditions that provide a complete set of tools and strategies aimed at unlocking these ultimate mysteries, even if mystics from various traditions did stumble on the same stages and insights often unknowingly.

.............


Just for the sake of clarification, I would like to make it clear that I never said that "these luminous self-perceiving phenomena which are craving-free and nondual are the Ultimate", if there could still be any ambiguity about that.

On the contrary, I said that what I used to take for an eternal, empty, uncreated, nondual, primordial awareness, source and substance of all things, turned out to be nothing more than the luminous nature of phenomena, themselves empty and ungraspable, somehow crystallized in a very subtle witnessing position. The whole topic of this thread is the deconstruction of this Primordial Awareness, One Mind, Cognizing Emptiness, Self, Atman, Luminous Mind, Tathagatgabha, or whatever we may call it,

As shocking as it may seem, the Buddha was very clear to say that this pure impersonal objectless nondual awareness (that Vedantists called Atma in Sanskrit, Atta in Pali) is still the aggregate of consciousness and that consciousness, as pure and luminous as it can be, does not stand beyond the aggregates.

"Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'" (Anatta-lakkhana Sutta).

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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Lotus_Bitch » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:32 pm

Many meditators know how to meditate,
But only a few know how to dismantle [mental clinging].
- Je Gyare

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Grigoris
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:12 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:36 pm

Off topic conversation on created/unborn nature of Nirvana split to .
Off topic conversation on self/not-self split

Please keep the conversation on topic.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


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