Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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Mr. G
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Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Mr. G » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:32 pm


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ronnewmexico
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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:46 pm

Eventually literally billions of humans will die as effect.

These are but precussors of the real events which will certainly follow. But events as human life is so short are hard to evaluate and determine in a human constext. Our lives being aware of things perhaps 50 years or so...

well the sliding of the ice caps of Greenland with their inevitable melting and disposition of mass held above to water level.....will increase sea levels perhaps as high as ten to fifteen feet.

This may not occur however tomorrow but 50 years from today...we simply do not know.
So we as human discount such things, as they will not effect us possibly.
So when forced to.... humanity will do something about this...but yes, it then will be already to late. Already it is to late. Billions will eventually die prematurely as result and entire cultures worth saving will be utterly destroyed and global migrations of peoples on a scale never envisioned will occur.

I don't generally externalize but it is tempting to do so. If I did I would suppose a demon some may call god/gods.... lets humanity go their way for extended periods of time, giving them more and more rope to hang themselves... usually on the basis of various defilements and then finally eventually....like the black plagues of the middle ages(40% died) the dust bowl and depression of the thirties and many many more examples....the rope is brought firmly and tightly back upon the throat.

LIke a harvest of sorts, to produce the absolutely most pain and suffering to the greatest amounts of peoples....

and then satiated...... this demon....will allow the rope to play out.....again and again. Humanity never quite getting it. Thusly we must seek enlightenment seemingly without deviation. Wether we ourselves are perceived to be the demon or not. That this occurs and reoccurs cannot be denied.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Heruka » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:42 am

careful.......there is a war on for your mind.


http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04282007.html

From Papal Indulgences to Carbon Credits


Is Global Warming a Sin?


In a couple of hundred years, historians will be comparing the frenzies over our supposed human contribution to global warming to the tumults at the latter end of the tenth century as the Christian millennium approached. Then, as now, the doomsters identified human sinfulness as the propulsive factor in the planet's rapid downward slide.

Then as now, a buoyant market throve on fear. The Roman Catholic Church was a bank whose capital was secured by the infinite mercy of Christ, Mary and the Saints, and so the Pope could sell indulgences, like checks. The sinners established a line of credit against bad behavior and could go on sinning. Today a world market in "carbon credits" is in formation. Those whose "carbon footprint" is small can sell their surplus carbon credits to others, less virtuous than themselves.

The modern trade is as fantastical as the medieval one. There is still zero empirical evidence that anthropogenic production of CO2 is making any measurable contribution to the world's present warming trend. The greenhouse fearmongers rely entirely on unverified, crudely oversimplified computer models to finger mankind's sinful contribution. Devoid of any sustaining scientific basis, carbon trafficking is powered by guilt, credulity, cynicism and greed, just like the old indulgences, though at least the latter produced beautiful monuments. By the sixteenth century, long after the world had sailed safely through the end of the first millennium, Pope Leo X financed the reconstruction of St. Peter's Basilica by offering a "plenary" indulgence, guaranteed to release a soul from purgatory.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:18 am

Well this is a bit misleading..."There is still zero empirical evidence that anthropogenic production of CO2 is making any measurable contribution to the world's present warming trend."

Empirical is derived from experience of experimental evidence...
It is simply not possible to do a world wide global experiment to make determinations of this sort.
Are there empirical evidence of concept behind the assumptions made of conclusion....certainly.
That Co2 increased environments in sunlight for instance, tend to retain heat as opposed to non co2 increased environments.....yes there is evidence. That increased amounts of atmospheric co2 pretty directly corrospond to increased global temperatures....yes,there is evidence.

And on and on....one completely inclusive body of work of singularity that empirically leads to global warming as result of human activity....that body of work would be the planet itself, and our present circumstance.

So that is misleading. The body of work that consists of overwhleming scientific concensus opinion on the existance and relationship of the two is undeniable. Virtually, anyone who is anything in climetology sees the relationship.

Do exceptions exist....certainly.
The term junk science arose at around the time of the consideration of the issue of tobacco and its relationship to cancer. Many many studies prompted and funded indirectly by tobacco companies attested with firmness no such relationship existed. In fact this serves as the principal legal defense even today....in isolation tobacco may not be said to cause cancer. Combined with other things it can lead only to a statistical conclusion. Emperical evidence....no. But all now know it does indeed cause cancer and tobacco companies publically at least now admit to such health hazard.

Suchly is global warming scientific naysayers...junk science. Funded overtly until recently by ExxonMObile until two years ago and covertly, presently.
So like tobacco causeing lung cancer there comes a time when people everywhere see the reltionship the impetus of the opposition and decide for themselves with legislation. That time is upon us.
For the global community it has been upon them for ten years or so.

Are americans just really more intelligent and capeable than the rest of the world who dramatically by concensus considers this view true....heck no. Americans are idiots...generally.
So yes....believe who you will. Smoke em if you got em as they used to say in the US army.... free cigarettes given to soldiers no charge by tobacco companies as a patriotic gesture during world war 2..

Exxon mobile would never do things like that......

Here's a video to represent my point of view...

[video][/video]

Heruka..this won't make sense to most here and few will actually read it,(just some other idiot on the internet) but I will state it again..
Intelligence services rarely squash stories that hold contrary opinion on things they do not want dissemenated. SOP is to publish many (ten for instance) stories of related content but with some factual misrepresentations in each of the ten. The original story is not squashed or made to not publish. Its effect is diluted by such covert means. This is done through contacts in the media field. The contacts are given select information available to them at times, in repayment. This keeps the ball rolling so to speak. With some true information and a bit false the souce is trusted by the populace.
But with select issue they are under the direct influence of the agency. And with some verifyable true information, abeit supplied, they have real news they can sell.

They do not just give information to those who spout their views always or tell those types what to say....the populace would not buy it. LIke, Fox news.... they would just discount it as propoganda.
So such is given to multiple points of view, those holding their opinion and those opposed to build the alternative stories on a issues credibility.

I of course don't want to tell you who to believe nor to tell you a specific source on this issue is as they say, in the pocket, but I say look at the issue entirely and you make up your own mind.
Media, american media.... is being managed by intelligence services. Global media is always under attack by influence by these same services, some of it is affected and some is not.

My final point being....... research each and every item to see the truth or nontruth of it in this current environment. Because someone seems to be on one side or another does not mean they are on every issue nor that their views can be unquestionably trusted to be theirs on every issue.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Heruka » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:49 am


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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:11 am

The amount anyone on the environmentalist side of this could possibly make compared to what will potentially be lost by big oil and big coal is compareing a knat to a elephant, a elephant of the size of the empire state building.

The only place in the world the anti global warming crowd has any credence whatsoever is in the americas and this almost entirely due to big oil and exxon mobiles campaign against it. I myself would not trade XOM for that very reason for many years due to their campaign. As I still will not trade any tobacco company, still for that very same reason.... junk science and subtrafuge.
A campaign of nonsense, scientific nonsense to include the american global tilt crowd.

The truth is global warming is real and is human related. These idiots in the americas should be allowed the truth. They would as the elections will attest in similiar result in November wholeheartedly support destroying the environment to stuff their ever growing bellies. Without a doubt.

So XOM...their efforts are misplaced and ignorant ones. And Americans as long as they can pretend to be really not evil, will remain really evil. Faced with the truth of things they would still do these things of evil but eventually the realization of such...would hasten a eventual moral decision making process...But first they must be allowed to see what they are really truly doing.
XOM assumes they would decide to do the moral thing.... Americans will do no such thing.
Eventually realizing they will not do the moral thing will effect the change in americans which will effect the moral thing....with much time.

No one is truly evil, we all just want happiness. Americans however are really truly functionally evil. Ever care to see how a american acts and treats others in daily conduct most importantly in business conduct....completely totally morally depraved. This reflects in all aspects most clearly in foreign policy, a bit in all other venues. Think of how a peoples would act if they knew they sponsored dictators and consequent death squads who killed thousands as in Chili Haiti Iran El Salvador Hondures Cuba and many many other places(facts now not rumors with the discloseur act time limitation on secret documents)..how would those peoples act knowing such and still being as they are.... they would act as americans act...evil. Spouting morality but doing what helps them and them only always. Any foreign aid with strings attached and only with self interest involved. The biggest donors of charity...sponsoring certain corporate interests such as GMO's. and on and on. Always I look at americans in this context....the drugs, the ideologs the defilements the abuses...this is the karmic effect of evil on a nation. The ignorance of not knowing what they are clearly doing is what enables it.

Show them....these tanklike vehicles they drive, to move their weak bodies around that are as large as tanks because they fear imaginary death by accident, and want to feel as powerful as their armies are.... as all morally inept do inordinately fear such things as death.... are killing the world....

Till they see that..... clearly nothing can change. So the truth must be allowed.

This antiglobal warming side of things..globally it will not pass the giggle test..not for a minute.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby neverdowell » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:33 pm


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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Indrajala » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:29 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:17 pm

Well generally I hold the opinion that such externalization does indeed lead us from ourselves as the inspirer of all that exists and the realm into which we birth. If such does really exist... the only way to outrun the grasp of such entities is indeed what is affirmed in Buddhism....they do not ultimately hold such powers, all is of causative origin, and that understanding, denies that which affirms their existance...mistaken inherant existant quality belief. Is this not upon which as the Buddha states...it all revolves.

So to my opinion this is why the buddha though stateing certainly, such as expressed in the Brahma sutra.... these beings being deluded, the focus is on ourselves, as inspiration and controlling factor in such things, and any controls they may seem to have over us.
So externalized or internalized..... the way out is the same, through understanding of what the Buddhas core teaching is.

To my personal view we look at our realm of existance of solidity and the way things appear to us as exclusionary to other existances. Imagine perhaps if there was other realm parallel with ours in which the beings and beings that consume things and objectify in such manner.... as we do with percieved apparent solid objects.... things that we perceive as not solid....awareness aspect itself.

In such a realm the solid would be perhaps awareness aspect of emotional content itself. And if a creature did abide suchly and having a subject object relationship established in core in purer form than human..... would not be what they eat..... aware aspect itself?

Suchly they would reap what we sow...which is our emotional involvement in things. The intense hate fear joy and on and on. We could not of course surpress such things, the supression itself would be like trying to surpress water in a cup, it would arise elsewhere. The issue would be to prevent the content itself from holding perceived content of water...this emotional response. By clear investigation we could perhaps determine such is not water itself but since we are thirsty it appears so(our self concept creating this thirst which precipitates as self other and eventually our found reality this realm). Found to be of other origin, this water and consequent thirst.... we could then do with it what we feel.

Gods (or demons cloaked as gods) their greatest fear is such a place would be, since inherant existance, self creation and replication and maintance of a god like status being most important to them(found by studying their derivitive or origination)......would be, the opposition to all they represent....noninherant existant quality. So they would reinforce by creating godlike worship and such things, to affirm their "devine" nature.

Now prayer, faith, and devotion, based upon noninherant existant quality may be a very important, perhaps indispensible, part of dissolution of the me(which is what has us causeing all this). But with focus of such on inherant existant thing such as a theist god, it becomes not a dissolution of self, but a reaffirmation of self or deviation from understanding. As in the theists inclination to state their god created humans in the gods image...that type of thing. Affirmations of human seperateness soul and all the rest which affirms the emotional respone to thiings. Seperations perception I me mine self other being at the heart of it all.

So we have perhaps these noninherantly existant beings, who themselves naturally, internally doubt their existance,(the basic foundational concept is consequently conceptually based and thusly faulted) but want to most of all firmly create a realm or environment in which they are affirmed as inherantly existant.So thusly if such a realm did exist under these constraints...they would indeed cause all overtly conscious beings to worship them(it reaffirms their considered inherant existance and creator of thngs envisioning) and if they do indeed objectify, as such a being faulted being be.....what is to say the essential objectification in such a godly realm be not awareness aspect itself. A godlike status would imply certain understandings from which are essentially derived their "powers". Closer to the real they could be approximately described than humans. Consequently their perceived powers.

Ultimately are not even inert objects such as the nails on our body and our hair and us being a microcosm not also our entire reality...... inert stones mountains and such, a extension of sorts of awareness..aware aspoect...it seems so.

So why the middle man if you are god in such and are inclined to objectify...why not establish the subject/object relationship with the awareness itself? Why create the inert and all the rest, the tales of woe the humans subject themselves to? What does all this sad tragic play create, but emotional response only...in the end. So if you were such a god/demon it would seem that perhaps awareness aspect is what you would consume.

So how better to eat such..... then to create a environment in which beings which have tendency to produce such(emotional responses) of most suffering. YOu must not only have these beings but you must manipulate their environment to propogate their kind(make it internal to their religion perhaps) inspire the technology perhaps to enable the propogation in a great manner..... and you must produce circumstance of great tragedy. A race of beings that always comes so close, but always fails in the end. How better to produce such emotional states? What greater emotion is produced by tragedy and its perception in the human sentient being....none. There is no greater emotion produced anywhere at any time. Some with death some with regret some with pain and normal suffering of life...but all enhanced greatly with great disastor of any sort and consequent tragedy. And large large amounts of beings that consciously can perceive such tragedy.

So you create these various things...these theisms which have worship of you, these religions that inforce propogation of human(since this is what you essentially eat their aware aspect production), and work to create circumstance of greatest tragedy....everything quite fine for quite some time until...rapidly and quite unexpectantly it all comes crashing down. Circumstance created perhaps with your determining influence.

So that is how it could be. But it probably does not matter a whit, since wether the god/demon is external or internal the way out of the prison is the same...understanding lack of inherant existant quality to all gods demons and most importantly..self, (AS a aside some shamanistic theory has a other being of extraterristorial sort inhabiting human beings in a one on one relationship a deviant perhaps of the same sort of thinking).

I ramble on and few if any are probably still reading at this point...but I find this could be how things are. This theory would allow for all possibility of existance if each is studied. So it interest me, though ultimately it is of no consequence.

If I need cause for preseverance in my spiritual path I do keep such envisionings in my mind as they for me, provide motivation to free myself and all others from this tyranny. To fully understand lack of self in myself all other things and lack of inherant existance in all things.

I being a layperson with little understanding of things cannot of course say this is how things are or not....but it seems so and seeming so serves purpose. Millarepa's cave demoness of course would not remove until he found the enemy of self to be nonexistant. Suchly we must also. Does the cave demoness Millarepa found, really exist.... that probably is irrelevent.

SElf it is that derives this thing real or not.
So I ramble on, my appologies to the initial poster for deviating from point.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Heruka » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 am


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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:35 am

Well you don't believe in global warming as human caused, which since you are a american is really no big surprise.

HHDL seems to see a relationship between human action and global warming as his mention of ahimsa in the context of global warming infers.

So....you are entitled to your opinion.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: Dalai Lama Links Global Warming Disasters

Postby Heruka » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:42 am



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