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In the absence of vinnana there is...? - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:56 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:58 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:17 am

Greetings,

Perhaps we can get...

:focus:

Freefall asked, "Is there a consciousness during deep sleep when no mental formations are there for support?"

I've presented an argument to say "no"... I feel I've taken this argument as far as it needs to go. People can decide whether it is satisfactory or not, according to their reason and experience.

Does anyone have a counter-argument to present?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:22 am


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Ben
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:25 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:31 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:37 am

Greetings Retro,
I question whether deep sleep is actually consciousness with no object.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:39 am

Greetings Ben,

Is your thought that it might be:

- consciousness with object
- not consciousness

:?:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:43 am

consciousness with object
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:43 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:51 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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octathlon
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby octathlon » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:57 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:58 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:59 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:01 am


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octathlon
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby octathlon » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:03 am

Oh dear. So these 5-pages-in-one-day are only the tip of the iceberg? OK, I will just say "body & tactile sensations" are present and get out of y'all's way.

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tiltbillings
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:10 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:11 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:35 am



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