In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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In the absence of vinnana there is...?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:25 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

dreamov
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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby dreamov » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:01 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:07 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:12 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:17 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:19 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:25 am

Greetings Tilt,

There is citta only if it is accompanied by an object - otherwise there is not. Or as quoted from my signature, ""No phenomenon is a phenomenon, until it is an observed phenomenon" (J.A. Wheeler).

If you are asking about "consciousness" (in an English and/or scientific sense) that's a different question altogether... one not addressed by the Buddha of the Sutta Pitaka because of its complete irrelevance to dukkha (suffering / unsatisfactoriness) and nirodha (its cessation).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:28 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:30 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:32 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:34 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:36 am

Greetings Tilt,

I will not partake in papanca monkey chatter by attempting to speculate upon or explain something that is beyond the all.

That others choose to do so is their problem, not mine.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:39 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:43 am

Greetings Tilt,

Because it goes beyond phenomonology of the all, into questions of whether something ontologically exists or not, independent of experience of them... it falls foul of the SN 12.15 fallacy.

There is only viññāna where there is an object for that viññāna.

What kind of answer do you think I should be giving?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:48 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:06 am

Greetings tilt,

My answer is very straightforward... There is either vinnana with object or there is not, at any point in time. During a night's sleep there will likely be moments of both.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:11 am


dreamov
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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby dreamov » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:29 am


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Re: Question about deep sleep

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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