Tendai Marathon Monks

[ananda]

I was wondering why do the Tendai monks at Mount Hiei walk over 1000 miles around the mountain ?
What is the purpose behind the walking is it walking meditation to attain samadhi ?

I hope I'm not posting too much. I don't post more than once a day and if I do I try to find a section where I haven't posted previously. Any advice on how often I can post ?

[plwk]

See this

[Jikan]

Hi ananda,

Keep posting until you run out of questions...

[WuMing]

maybe you want to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYAuEF6Oto8
about the Tendai Kaihōgyō 回峰行 practitioners.
perhaps you'll find an answer there.

[WuMing]

The above you.tube link isn't working anymore. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emE-dxCyRz4

John Steven's book about these remarkable practitioners is in print again. http://tinyurl.com/mtps4os
There you find good and reliable information about them.

[Seishin]

Awesome, thanks WuMing

Gassho,
Seishin

[Jikan]

The above you.tube link isn't working anymore. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emE-dxCyRz4

John Steven's book about these remarkable practitioners is in print again. http://tinyurl.com/mtps4os
There you find good and reliable information about them.

Glad to hear it! I know Keisho Leary at California Tendai Monastery had long been interested in getting that book out again. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the one who made it happen.

[lobster]

I was wondering why do the Tendai monks at Mount Hiei walk over 1000 miles around the mountain ?
What is the purpose behind the walking is it walking meditation to attain samadhi ?

It may be to enjoy a 'deep fried mars bar' without concern about the calories.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eback.html

However they are deeply inspirational, if not completely ga-ga.
Their intent is to become 'living Buddhas'.
Effort is good.
Right effort, in the right way, at the right time is better.

[PorkChop]

I was wondering why do the Tendai monks at Mount Hiei walk over 1000 miles around the mountain ?
What is the purpose behind the walking is it walking meditation to attain samadhi ?

It may be to enjoy a 'deep fried mars bar' without concern about the calories.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eback.html

However they are deeply inspirational, if not completely ga-ga.
Their intent is to become 'living Buddhas'.
Effort is good.
Right effort, in the right way, at the right time is better.

Maybe I'm biased, maybe I'm ignorant, I just don't get these criticisms...
It's okay for Tibetan yogis to go up into the mountains and do nothing but seated meditation 24 hours a day, which includes maybe 4 hours of sleeping in lotus posture, but heaven forbid anybody do walking meditation instead... then you're just an ascetic...
This entire practice wouldn't have been that big deal 2000 years ago, when people walked everywhere and a 30 mile walking day wasn't outrageous.
It's probably not all that different than what folks like Ananda and company were doing back in the day when they did "walking meditation throughout the night."
I would wager a higher percentage of kids die in youth & high school sports leagues every year than monks doing the Kaihougyou.
The 9 days of Douiri, yeah, I'll grant that's pretty strict asceticism, but the walking part - building up from 30~40km a day to 84km a day over a 7 year period is not that outrageous imho.

[Jikan]

Certainly more people die daily of sitting on their asses doing nothing than die actively trying to do something inherently good. (I am speaking metaphorically here. It is possible to actively sit on your ass all day in a way that is inherently good. I am criticizing passivity and sedentary habits, not sesshin.)

I can't really criticize lobster's post, though, because I don't understand it all even after reading it twice.

[lobster]

Right effort, in the right way, at the right time is better.

If you wish to become a Living Buddha, you can live in a cave in the Himalayas. Perhaps wander around mountains, and engage in other extreme practices, such as half starving yourself as the Buddha did.
It is impressive. It is inspirational. It often leads to change. Buddhahood . . . not so much.
There is not a magic formula of practices. Each person is different.

The Buddha gave up extremes of hedonism and asceticism, so we could find a balanced way.
There are other self indulgent practices. Impressive walling up. Living in a box for years. Isolationist Sanghas. Christian saints use to live on the top of poles for years. All of them were accredited with sanctity, some are worthy of listening to, many are not.

I prefer my saints to be ordinary, accessible filled with metta not weirdness. The Tendai marathon monks seem nice enough. I am sure they would make interesting dinner guests.

Personally I like weirdos but then that may mean normality/ordinariness is more what is personally required . . .

Do we need better human beings or another thousand years of bowing, running and robe wearing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Buddhism

Maybe we can have both?

[PorkChop]

Yeah, but as we discussed in the other thread, there were 14 dhutangas or "ascetic practices" that the Buddha was not only cool with, but he continued to practice long after his Enlightenment. He ditched self-mortifying ascetic practices, but not all ascetic practices.

[Jikan]

Right effort, in the right way, at the right time is better.

I'd like to pin you down on your actual position before I take the trouble of pointing out the contradictions and other problems in your posts so far in this thread.

Are you claiming that kaihogyo practice is not right effort, in the right way, at the right time? If this is your claim, on what basis do you make it? How are you informed on this--what is your evidence for making this claim? How are you qualified to make such a claim?

[lobster]

Are you claiming

No.

No basis.
No evidence.
No qualifications.

Anything else you would like pinned?

[Jikan]

Arglebargle.

***

Here, lobster poses a question:

Do we need better human beings or another thousand years of bowing, running and robe wearing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Buddhism

Maybe we can have both?

...implying that those involved with traditional forms of practice (summarized under the heading of bowing, running and robe wearing) are not productive of better human beings: that this form practice is not Buddhist practice at all. This is an unsubstantiated assumption, and one that slanders these practitioners. I find this attitude arrogant and closed-minded. Lobster asks, "Maybe we can have both?" without considering the possibility that, luckily for us, we already do, in the same bodies.

I've met kaihogyo practitioners. They are not weird. They are not robots. They are, as near as I can reckon, bodhisattvas. Good for them and good for us.