Son of Buddha wrote:
Yes a True Self that exists beyond the aggreagates.
clinging to aggregates is listed as apart of dependent orgination which is rooted in ignorance.
the aggreagates themselves are apart of dependent origination the 5 aggreagates have as their souce ingorance,ignorance as their origin,they are born and produced from ignorance.
so if the 5 aggreagates are actually sourced,originate,anbd are born and produced from ignorance how does that fit into your views?
You believe in a true self beyond the aggregates, that is fine for a Hindu or some other religion, but in Buddhism there is no such thing. See the explanation in Nagarjuna's main work: Investigation of Self and Things
Also, from Mipham:"If there were an independent self distinct from the five aggregates, it should be observable, but since no such self can be observed, we must deny its existence. Were there a self transcending the conditioned aggregates, it would not have the characteristics required to perform actions or to experience happiness and suffering, and so on; rather, it would be unconditioned, like space, beyond either benefit or harm."
(1) the 5 aggreagates themselves are apart of D.O and are from ignorance so are you saying Enlightenement is apart of D.O and ignorance?if not then they are beyond the 5 aggreagates which are produced from Ignorance.
what?? it wouldnt be observable thats the reason its outside the 5 aggreagates that one would USE to observe.this doesnt make any sense,how would "I" observe the Self/Enlightenement when it is outside the observable(5 aggreagates)?as the Lotus sutra says (chapter 2) "I will say no more.Why?Because what the Buddha has acheived is the rarest and most difficult to understand Law.The true entity of all phenomena can only be understood and shared between Buddhas"
okay....then your statment continues to go on and say "since no self can be observed,we must deny its existance" REALLY so i suppose I must deny the existance of Enlightenement since it(Enlightenment) CANNOT be understood by me or anyone who is NOT enlightened(as is what the Lotus sutra says).why stop there I cannot observe many things in life or in Buddhism should i deny them also?
then your statement continues to go on saying that this self outside of the 5 aggreagtes would be unconditioned(as if being unconditioned is a bad thing)
you do realise that enlightenement is Unconditioned dont you?this in fact supports what i am saying.
Son of Buddha wrote:
So WHO is the one that is realising dependent orgination?
YOU STATED:(down below) "Again, I don't speak of any self that clings to the aggregates, it is something you do"
you rely more on this tainted self than i do my friend,"i" cannot realise Dependent origination,"i" cannot realise enlightenement for the "i" itself IS the property of Samsara.your view is of a self that is realising something as if the "I" truely is real.
Speaking in English without using personal pronouns is possible, although weird. The difference is whether one takes "I" as something eternal, substantial, independent and real or just as a conventional word.
agreed the "i" that clings to the 5 aggreagates is D.O. the 5 aggregates themself are D.O and come from ignorance.