Vajrasattva purification practice
- Johnny Dangerous
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Vajrasattva purification practice
Heard a bit about this, read up on it.. I notice that for some this seems to be a foundational practice, but I don't think my center does this.
Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Huh. I thought every lineage did this. Again, I am continually learning things here I didnt have a clue about. Vajrasattva practice is in most "ngondro", or foundational practices, liturgies. As a part of these ngondros. such as the Longchen Nyingthig, or the Karma Kagyu ngondro--which are emphasized in the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages--one accumulates 111,000 repetitions of the 100 syllable mantra of Vajrasattva. I thought this was part of the Gelug and Sakya equivalents, is it not?Johnny Dangerous wrote:Heard a bit about this, read up on it.. I notice that for some this seems to be a foundational practice, but I don't think my center does this.
Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Anyway, it depends on the lineage whether empowerment is required or whether reading transmission will suffice.
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
I get the impression that the center I go to might be somewhat non-traditional in how they handle foundational practice, though they are of course completely legit Sakya dudes I have no idea what is 'standard", the services at the center are Shamatha/Vipayshana and Chenrezig/Tara practice, though due to the head guys being out of town I have never gotten any sort of one on one time with them for questions, I plan on getting some of that once they're available.Yudron wrote:Huh. I thought every lineage did this. Again, I am continually learning things here I didnt have a clue about. Vajrasattva practice is in most "ngondro", or foundational practices, liturgies. As a part of these ngondros. such as the Longchen Nyingthig, or the Karma Kagyu ngondro--which are emphasized in the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages--one accumulates 111,000 repetitions of the 100 syllable mantra of Vajrasattva. I thought this was part of the Gelug and Sakya equivalents, is it not?Johnny Dangerous wrote:Heard a bit about this, read up on it.. I notice that for some this seems to be a foundational practice, but I don't think my center does this.
Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Anyway, it depends on the lineage whether empowerment is required or whether reading transmission will suffice.
The reason I ask is that when I look at places like Berzin's site they seem to indicate this is a pretty open practice, but it also looks like something that maybe you'd want...teacher advice on it before entertaining the prospect of?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Well, I just googled "Sakya" and "ngondro" and came up with many references to the Sakyas having Vajrasattva practice in their ngondro. For sure you are going to want the reading transmission, and you can ask the lama if he or she thinks this is a good practice for you at this time.
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I get the impression that the center I go to might be somewhat non-traditional in how they handle foundational practice, though they are of course completely legit Sakya dudesYudron wrote:Huh. I thought every lineage did this. Again, I am continually learning things here I didnt have a clue about. Vajrasattva practice is in most "ngondro", or foundational practices, liturgies. As a part of these ngondros. such as the Longchen Nyingthig, or the Karma Kagyu ngondro--which are emphasized in the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages--one accumulates 111,000 repetitions of the 100 syllable mantra of Vajrasattva. I thought this was part of the Gelug and Sakya equivalents, is it not?Johnny Dangerous wrote:Heard a bit about this, read up on it.. I notice that for some this seems to be a foundational practice, but I don't think my center does this.
Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Anyway, it depends on the lineage whether empowerment is required or whether reading transmission will suffice.
The reason I ask is that when I look at places like Berzin's site they seem to indicate this is a pretty open practice, but it also looks like something that maybe you'd want...teacher advice on it before entertaining the prospect of?
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Sounds like I really need the one on one time to suss this stuff out, thanks.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Not that I believe.Johnny Dangerous wrote:Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
I think you need at least the lung (reading transmission).Konchog1 wrote:Not that I believe.Johnny Dangerous wrote:Is this something which requires initiation normally?
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
In the Kagyu lineage you defintiely need the lung for the mantra and (if you are going to do it) the practice text. An explanation (tri) won't go astray either, though you can just rely on the explanation in Jamgon Kongtruls Torch of Certainty. An empowerment/initiation (wang) takes the practice to another level.Sherlock wrote:I think you need at least the lung (reading transmission).
Now, it may be a good idea to ask your lama about this practice because it is normally a personal and not a group practice, so that may be the reason why it is not practiced publicly (ie as a group practice) in the centre.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
I imagine some kind of empowerment should be given before doing Vajrasattva as the practice is for purifying samaya and if you've had no empowerment there's no samaya to purify. that said, you can find out more, including a practice that apparently doesn't require empowerment here:
http://prayer4peace.net
http://prayer4peace.net
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
It purifies more than samaya. Remember sickness, contamination, and negative karma of all kinds are purified.michaelb wrote:I imagine some kind of empowerment should be given before doing Vajrasattva as the practice is for purifying samaya and if you've had no empowerment there's no samaya to purify. that said, you can find out more, including a practice that apparently doesn't require empowerment here:
http://prayer4peace.net
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
How do you purify samaya, if you have done root downfall months ago?
I have taken only Amitayus empowerment from konchog chidu.
I have taken only Amitayus empowerment from konchog chidu.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Gelug: "The general rule of thumb is that without empowerment one can not absorb thedeity (any deity) into the heart nor arise as the deity oneself. Without empowerment one must keep the deity on the crown of the head or in front of oneself. If the practice says to "absorb the deity into the heart" and one does not have the empowerment then you visualize the deity melting into light and the light only absorbs into the heart. "
Sravasti Abbey has done a few 3 month Vajrasattva retreats, which includes long distance practitioners joining in.
Teachings and meditations: http://www.thubtenchodron.org/Retreat/w ... _2006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sravastiabbey.org/about/hhdlendorsement.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sravasti Abbey has done a few 3 month Vajrasattva retreats, which includes long distance practitioners joining in.
Teachings and meditations: http://www.thubtenchodron.org/Retreat/w ... _2006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sravastiabbey.org/about/hhdlendorsement.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Mahayana aspiration: May this practice be a source for the purification of the karmic inpurities and samaya breakages of ALL sentient beings. Also, have you ever considered that the reason you are in samsara is due to samaya breakages in past lives?pael wrote:How do you purify samaya, if you have done root downfall months ago?
I have taken only Amitayus empowerment from konchog chidu.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Do this http://prayer4peace.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; a lot.pael wrote:How do you purify samaya, if you have done root downfall months ago?
I have taken only Amitayus empowerment from konchog chidu.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
- conebeckham
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Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
In Sakya, ngondro is a bit different. Kagyupas and Nyingmapas are used to doing ngondro, including Vajrasattva, as a "main practice" prior to deity yoga, etc. Completing the 400,000 accumulations of prostrations, refuge, Vajrasattva, Mandala, and Guru Yoga is often a prerequisite for the so-called "Advanced practices" in Kagyu and Nyingma lineages.
In the Sakya lineage, the ngondro practices come AFTER (or together with) the deity yoga practice, in Lamdre and also in VY practice. Sakya most definitely have Vajrasattva practice, but it's usually a part of other deity sadhanas--Hevajra and Vajrayogini, mainly. However, some Sakyapas may practice Vajrasattva on it's own, as well, possibly from various Terma traditions.
Whether for ngondro or as a main, yidam practice, the empowerment is important, in Kagyu, Geluk, and Nyingma. I can't say for the Sakyas. It is possible, and beneficial to a degree, to recite the mantra and liturgy, I'm sure, but every Kagyu and Nyingma lama I've known indicates that, for counting the accumulations, the empowerment is a prerequisite. I'm sure this is also the case, for purposes of a "yidam retreat" when one practices in a group setting, as the Gelukpas sometimes do with Heruka Vajrasattva, and as the Nyingmapas do, for example, with Minling Dorsem, Chogling DorSem, Red Vajrasattva, or Dudjom DorSem Lama Chopa.
In the Sakya lineage, the ngondro practices come AFTER (or together with) the deity yoga practice, in Lamdre and also in VY practice. Sakya most definitely have Vajrasattva practice, but it's usually a part of other deity sadhanas--Hevajra and Vajrayogini, mainly. However, some Sakyapas may practice Vajrasattva on it's own, as well, possibly from various Terma traditions.
Whether for ngondro or as a main, yidam practice, the empowerment is important, in Kagyu, Geluk, and Nyingma. I can't say for the Sakyas. It is possible, and beneficial to a degree, to recite the mantra and liturgy, I'm sure, but every Kagyu and Nyingma lama I've known indicates that, for counting the accumulations, the empowerment is a prerequisite. I'm sure this is also the case, for purposes of a "yidam retreat" when one practices in a group setting, as the Gelukpas sometimes do with Heruka Vajrasattva, and as the Nyingmapas do, for example, with Minling Dorsem, Chogling DorSem, Red Vajrasattva, or Dudjom DorSem Lama Chopa.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
If I fully transgress tantric vows, can that be purified? How?
What, if I die middle of repenting? I have heard to purify full transgression it is needed 100000 repetion of vajrasatta mantra? Example: when I have done 5000 and if I die then, do I purify samaya? Do I still go to vajra hell?
What, if I die middle of repenting? I have heard to purify full transgression it is needed 100000 repetion of vajrasatta mantra? Example: when I have done 5000 and if I die then, do I purify samaya? Do I still go to vajra hell?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Just do it and don't worry about it because, more than likely, we'll all be in vajra hell together, so at least you will have good company!pael wrote:If I fully transgress tantric vows, can that be purified? How?
What, if I die middle of repenting? I have heard to purify full transgression it is needed 100000 repetion of vajrasatta mantra? Example: when I have done 5000 and if I die then, do I purify samaya? Do I still go to vajra hell?
But seriously, another very good practice is the 35 Confession Buddhas. It s a Sutra practice so it doesn't need all the tantric bells and frills in order to practice AND even clears up messes as serious as killing your guru, especially when you apply the four opponent powers:
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/PrayersAn ... tices.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;A complete purification practice consists of four opponent powers:
1. The power of regret for having done the negative action.
2. The power of reliance: taking refuge, which restores our relationship with holy objects, and generating the altruistic intention, which restores our relationship with other sentient beings.
3. The power of the remedial action, e.g. prostration, offering, reciting the names of the Buddha, reading or contemplating the Dharma, etc.
4. The power of the promise not to repeat the action.
These four opponent powers are found in "The Bodhisattva's Confession of Ethical Downfalls*," the Vajrasattva meditation, and other practices.
*35 Confession Buddhas practice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
Thank you Cone, this explains alot.conebeckham wrote:
In the Sakya lineage, the ngondro practices come AFTER (or together with) the deity yoga practice, in Lamdre and also in VY practice. Sakya most definitely have Vajrasattva practice, but it's usually a part of other deity sadhanas--Hevajra and Vajrayogini, mainly. However, some Sakyapas may practice Vajrasattva on it's own, as well, possibly from various Terma traditions.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
100.000 is just a number,it isn't important, do it from your heart as much as you possibly can. Even for the rest of your life. Very fantastic practice, I promise you will not regret doing it.pael wrote:If I fully transgress tantric vows, can that be purified? How?
What, if I die middle of repenting? I have heard to purify full transgression it is needed 100000 repetion of vajrasatta mantra? Example: when I have done 5000 and if I die then, do I purify samaya? Do I still go to vajra hell?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Vajrasattva purification practice
I am finding it a very painfully difficult practice, I agree that it is fantastic though.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde