Eckhart Tolle on christmas

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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby martin123 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:59 pm

it doesnt have to be called 'Buddhism'. thats just a word,come on...
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:00 pm

martin123 wrote:it doesnt have to be called 'Buddhism'. thats just a word,come on...
Especially when it is not Buddhism.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:09 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:You know what, i'm done with focusing about what he is or isn't saying because you guys are constantly moving the target, how about just answering the other thing:

Not true, the manifested target is also unmanifested.
Johnny Dangerously wrote:If it's the same as Buddhism, why isn't it called Buddhism, and why would he teach Buddhism without calling it that?

Because Eckhart Tolle is not a Buddhist.
Johnny Dangerously wrote: What qualities does it share with Buddhism that make it worth the time of Buddhists to incorporate?

The essence of the teachings.
Johnny Dangerously wrote: What qualities does it not share?

The rites and rituals.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:11 pm

martin123 wrote:it doesnt have to be called 'Buddhism'. thats just a word,come on...


2600 Years (arguably many more if we believe the words of the Buddha) of culture, philosophy, truth seeking, mediation and recorded experiences of such is "just a word"? Granted Buddhism can (and should) mean different things to different people, but I think to those who consider it something dear, and true, it is alot more than just a word.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:13 pm

lowlydog wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:You know what, i'm done with focusing about what he is or isn't saying because you guys are constantly moving the target, how about just answering the other thing:

Not true, the manifested target is also unmanifested.
Johnny Dangerously wrote:If it's the same as Buddhism, why isn't it called Buddhism, and why would he teach Buddhism without calling it that?

Because Eckhart Tolle is not a Buddhist.
Johnny Dangerously wrote: What qualities does it share with Buddhism that make it worth the time of Buddhists to incorporate?

The essence of the teachings.
Johnny Dangerously wrote: What qualities does it not share?

The rites and rituals.


What is "the essence of the teachings" are they different from Buddhism? What makes "the essence of the teachings" different from what I might learn from a Vajrayana practice, or doing insight meditation etc.?

If I am a Buddhist, then surely I am already learning something that already contains this "essence" since you say they are not intrinsically different.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:18 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:What is "the essence of the teachings" if it not Buddhism? What makes "the essence of the teachings" different from what I might learn from my teacher?


The essence http://youtu.be/f5u3pLRUuhU
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:19 pm

lowlydog wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:What is "the essence of the teachings" if it not Buddhism? What makes "the essence of the teachings" different from what I might learn from my teacher?


The essence http://youtu.be/f5u3pLRUuhU


I'm actually asking you Lolwlydog, not Eckhart Tolle. You are the one arguing for it being the same as Buddhism on here, so I think it's incumbent on you to provide support for that position, rather than just to post videos in response. Again please explain, if the essence of this is not different from Buddhism, what would Buddhists get from it?

from my perspective, there is plenty of "rite and ritual" attached to people like Tolle and the whole New Age/Self Help scene in general, the sweaters, the soft tones, the music, the lack of anything "supernatural", weird, or discomforting, the presentation that is palatable to upper class westerners..all these things are just as much rite and ritual as a Sadhana or a Three Gacchami's prayer, they are just harder to see because they are things that your culture is immersed in.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:25 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
lowlydog wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:What is "the essence of the teachings" if it not Buddhism? What makes "the essence of the teachings" different from what I might learn from my teacher?


The essence http://youtu.be/f5u3pLRUuhU


I'm actually asking you, not Eckhart Tolle. You are the one arguing for it being the same as Buddhism on here, so I think it's incumbent on you to provide support for that position, rather than just to post videos in response. Again please explain, if the essence of this is not different from Buddhism, what would Buddhists get from it?


The video is my argument, watch the video its 3min. long. :smile:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:29 pm


The video is my argument, watch the video its 3min. long. :smile:


I did, it was pretty vague, though not unpleasant, and the same sort of thing (not saying this about his teachings a whole as I don't know) you could get from a 3 minute, simplified Zen or generic "mindfulness" teaching. It doesn't answer my question though...I want to know what you think this "essence" offers to a Buddhist, if as you say it is not fundamentally different from Buddhism

For my own part:

This is definitely eternalist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW7ld4CCPoA

All I am saying is that I feel this sort of thing does not comport with Buddhism, you guys have spent this huge amount of time seeming saying I am off on this, but if I am off on this..then why does he say things like this? If I am correct and this is different from Buddhism, why is it offensive that I say this is teaching which move in a different direction than the Dharma?
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby martin123 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:47 pm

Johnny
Dangerous wrote:
martin123 wrote:it doesnt have to be called 'Buddhism'.
thats just a word,come on...


2600 Years (arguably many more if we believe the words of the Buddha) of
culture, philosophy, truth seeking, mediation and recorded experiences
of such is "just a word"? Granted Buddhism can (and should) mean
different things to different people, but I think to those who consider
it something dear, and true, it is alot more than just a word.

im talking about the word not the teachings!since u asked why isnt it called buddhism,its pretty obvious what my point was.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:51 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:It doesn't answer my question though...I want to know what you think this "essence" offers to a Buddhist, if as you say it is not fundamentally different from Buddhism.


Depends on where the Buddhist in question is on the path. If at the beginning of their spiritual journey, it may offer a reason to begin practicing. If in the rocky confusing first few steps it may offer a different view to help clarify the teachings. If the practice is established and progressing nicely, it may be like a companion. If you are near the end of the path it may be used as a teaching aid. If you are a realized Buddha maybe you could use the book to sit on to help align the hips while meditating. :tongue:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:53 pm

martin123 wrote:
Johnny
Dangerous wrote:
martin123 wrote:it doesnt have to be called 'Buddhism'.
thats just a word,come on...


2600 Years (arguably many more if we believe the words of the Buddha) of
culture, philosophy, truth seeking, mediation and recorded experiences
of such is "just a word"? Granted Buddhism can (and should) mean
different things to different people, but I think to those who consider
it something dear, and true, it is alot more than just a word.

im talking about the word not the teachings!since u asked why isnt it called buddhism,its pretty obvious what my point was.


it's really not, both of you have spent this thread talking about something that is the same as Buddhism that somehow also isn't Buddhism, so I actually have no idea what you mean. I'm getting more and more confused the further we go ;)

Lowlydog has even implied that Eckhart has greater realization than what exists in some Buddhists tradition, i'm just asking for clarification about what you guys think:

Exactly how the teachings are like or unlike Buddhism and

If they are the same, what is it about Eckhart that makes it worth the time of Buddhists to pursue the teachings?

If they have irreconcilable differences, what is wrong with saying they are not Dharma?
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby martin123 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:36 pm

they both share the same goal to wake one up from the dream of ego and seperation.if a buddhist find his teaching helpful with this pursuit,thats wonderful.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby uan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:06 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
from my perspective, there is plenty of "rite and ritual" attached to people like Tolle and the whole New Age/Self Help scene in general, the sweaters, the soft tones, the music, the lack of anything "supernatural", weird, or discomforting, the presentation that is palatable to upper class westerners..all these things are just as much rite and ritual as a Sadhana or a Three Gacchami's prayer, they are just harder to see because they are things that your culture is immersed in.


Nothing against Tolle, but :good:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:14 am

As to whether his teachings are dualistic, eternalistic or not in comparison to Dharma, watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEed09SJ_R0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEed09SJ_R0
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:24 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Lowlydog has even implied that Eckhart has greater realization than what exists in some Buddhists tradition


That's news to me. :shrug:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:28 am

lowlydog wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Lowlydog has even implied that Eckhart has greater realization than what exists in some Buddhists tradition


That's news to me. :shrug:


It certainly came up twice in the thread, the ambiguous references to Buddhists who just "read sutras and pray to statues", a general disdain for Buddhism as a world religion (rather than some "stuff" that apparently can be divorced from the religion itself I guess) calling Eckhart a possible living Buddha, and questioning whether perhaps he was more developed than HHDL. Perhaps you didn't mean it the way it sounded, but I do think this is what it sounded like, i'm sorry if I misread it, or interpreted it in a way you didn't intend.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:32 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:from my perspective, there is plenty of "rite and ritual" attached to people like Tolle and the whole New Age/Self Help scene in general, the sweaters, the soft tones, the music, the lack of anything "supernatural", weird, or discomforting, the presentation that is palatable to upper class westerners..all these things are just as much rite and ritual as a Sadhana or a Three Gacchami's prayer, they are just harder to see because they are things that your culture is immersed in.


Now you just talkin crazy bro. :rolleye:

http://youtu.be/4TtBFooARUo
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:36 am

lowlydog wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:from my perspective, there is plenty of "rite and ritual" attached to people like Tolle and the whole New Age/Self Help scene in general, the sweaters, the soft tones, the music, the lack of anything "supernatural", weird, or discomforting, the presentation that is palatable to upper class westerners..all these things are just as much rite and ritual as a Sadhana or a Three Gacchami's prayer, they are just harder to see because they are things that your culture is immersed in.


Now you just talkin crazy bro. :rolleye:

http://youtu.be/4TtBFooARUo


Instead of (apparently) making value judgements about me via the Eagles (lol), we can let the conversation go and i'm fine with that too.

Otherwise reply with something of substance!
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:40 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:It certainly came up twice in the thread, the ambiguous references to Buddhists who just "read sutras and pray to statues", a general disdain for Buddhism as a world religion (rather than some "stuff" that apparently can be divorced from the religion itself I guess) calling Eckhart a possible living Buddha, and questioning whether perhaps he was more developed than HHDL. Perhaps you didn't mean it the way it sounded, but I do think this is what it sounded like, i'm sorry if I misread it, or interpreted it in a way you didn't intend.


That was also a reference to christians who read bibles and pray to statues of Jesus, not just Buddhists.

Disdain, who me nawww.

Maybe Eckhart is more realized than the Dalai, who cares?

Your hanging on to tight fella, loosen your grip. :smile:
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