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Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Mawkish1983
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:32 pm

I haven't seen any mistrust of women in what the Buddha taught.

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Jaidyn
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Jaidyn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:37 pm

Last edited by Jaidyn on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mawkish1983
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:40 pm

You compare race to sex; I don't think they are comparible. There are far more significant physiological differences between the sexes than there are between the races. It is impossible for a man to menstruate, I was taught that by my science teacher when I was at school, but I don't think my science teacher was demonstrating a mistrust of men.

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Jaidyn
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Jaidyn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:45 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Alex123 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:46 pm

I don't get it. Women can become Arhats.

Considering how rare it is to become a Buddha in Theravada POV, most men might not become Buddha anyway. Rebirth in certain heavenly worlds is very far off the goal anyways, and it is apparently possible to be reborn with a different gender, so how much does current gender matter? In Orthodox Theravada it is impossible for anyone right now to enter the path to Buddhahood.

As for equality, there is no such thing in the world. Different people are different, and they excel at different things.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Mawkish1983
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:47 pm


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Jaidyn
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Jaidyn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:55 pm


Mawkish1983
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:02 pm


PeterB
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby PeterB » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:42 pm

There is a simple explanation Jaidyn. It is that The Buddha was not a God. He was not omniscient. That he discovered or rediscovered vital truths about the causes of human suffering and the way out of that.
But he remained a product of his times in many ways. He taught that earthquakes are the result of supernatural events.
He taught that there is a giant mountain at the centre of the world, he taught that women could not attain to that which men attain to .
I think we can safely put that all to one side and value him for what he did get right.

:anjali:

morning mist
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby morning mist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:55 pm

with metta,

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Jaidyn
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Jaidyn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:57 pm

Last edited by Jaidyn on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

morning mist
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby morning mist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:15 pm

As various people have pointed out that both men and women are free to practice and become a Buddha in a future life. That is not an issue for women because bodies can be changed. The explanation was obvious when we take the time to reflect on the various practical aspects.

Some may say that this is not fair because what if a woman wanted to become a Buddha right now in this life then she can't because she can't change her body right now. When it comes to becoming the next Buddha right now, it is also not possible for men as well because the next Buddha is Maittreya. So it is not open to both men and women when it comes to becoming the next Buddha in this very life. It is the same for both men and women.
with metta,

Mawkish1983
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:49 pm

Women can, in this life, attain Nibbana, just as men can. This is why I think you are getting confused. Woman and men can both become Arahants in this life. Who told you they couldn't?

bypasser
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby bypasser » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:03 pm

:buddha2:
Last edited by bypasser on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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gavesako
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby gavesako » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:09 pm

I just read this biography of the founder of Dhammakaya which is interesting (note that he shows respect to his teacher -- a nun):


Dhammachai Day – Victory Announcement Day

Back in 35 years ago, on August 27th, 1969 at the main chapel in Pak Nam Bhasi Charoen Temple, a guy determined to be ordained as a monk. He sacrifices his life to Buddhism because of his high aspiration. He intentionally makes merit and pursues the perfections concerning the Great Man’s body because he knows that the qualities and properties of the Great Man’s body are best and suitable for the highest goal – the Utmost Dhamma.

That day was the Most Ven. Phrarajbhavanavisudh’s ordination day, the monk who is like the sun of peace or the sun of Dhamma shining Dhamma light to the world.

The Most Ven. Phrarajbhavanavisudh (Luang Phaw Dhammajayo)

The Most Ven. Phrarajbhavanavisudh’s highest aspiration

“Oh!...the celestial beings at the Black Cliff, I who wears the saffron robes, the victory flag of Arahants, have stuck the war flag and announce here that I will fight the enemies (defilements, mara) by Dhamma. On the sacred peak where the great celestial beings reside, I can tell you from my heart that I will sacrifice my life for Buddhism and pursue the perfections again and again to free me and all beings from the sufferings. Even if there is still one being not going to the Nirvana, I will not stop fighting, still live like this and keep helping the beings. I would be the last one to go to the Nirvana.”

Dhammajayo Bhikkhu

...

When he was a freshman, he went to Pak Nam Temple again and studied meditation with other teaching monks. He knew later that Mother Lookchand and the Master Nun Chand was the same person. So, he found the person who could make his dream become true. He loved and respected to his teacher very much and always called her “Khun Yai”, means grandmother in Thai, which sounded more familiar than “Teacher.”

When the time passed by, He meditated better and better and became expert in meditation. He could do as good as he wanted and also knew and saw Dhamma by the Lord Buddha’s way. He also knew that only the Right Meditation could help all beings from the sufferings and dangers in the cycle of reincarnation and brought the beings to meet the everlasting happiness, the Nirvana. He asked the permission from the Master Nun to be ordained for more Dhamma studying and the nun granted the permission after he graduated from the university. On the Master Nun Chan’s Birthday Anniversary in 1968, he paid back her kindness by taking oath to be a celibatarian for whole life which was the precious gift for her. After he had ordained for a while, he said about the ideology of monastic ordination that being a monk was not easy, only wearing the saffron robes did not mean the wearer was a good monk. The good monk had to do the monastic daily routines and keep the 227 monastic precepts well. Each monk’s ordination would bring more merit to him if he could support the religion, not only rely on the religion

Translated by Chadawee Chaipooripat
(from a Dhammakaya website)
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Saijun
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Saijun » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:45 pm

Hello friends,

This is a very interesting discussion, and one worth having. However, I would put forward that upon reaching the Unconditioned, conditional things like "man" and "woman" and really every other conditioned thing fall away. Of course there will be differences in body parts until the final Unbinding, but does it really matter to an Arahant which bits s/he is equipped with? Bodies are conditioned and subject to decay. Nibbana, the unconditioned, is beyond male and female.

Or so have I heard.

Metta and Anjali,

Perry

morning mist
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby morning mist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:50 pm

When it comes to the accusation about the Buddha leaving home to fulfill the mission he took birth for, when people say that it was a mistake I am assuming that they knew a better alternative or choice. I am wondering if someone could share the " correct" choice that they had in mind.
with metta,

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:09 pm

Neither a man nor a woman who argues endlessly about whether it is possible for a woman to attain Enlightenment could possibly attain insight leading to higher knowledge, let alone become a Fully Enlightened Sammāsambuddha.

Realisation comes from practice, and argumentation is very remote indeed from the practice of mindfulness.

There is no doubt what the texts say — whether they are the original teachings or corruptions introduced later is impossible for you to know for sure. Whatever you believe, it is just a view.

What is possible to know for sure is that attachment to views is the cause of suffering.

Let go of views and opinions, and develop mindfulness of the body, mindfulness of feelings, mindfulness of thoughts, and mindfulness of mental states to realise their impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self characteristics. Do not waste this precious human rebirth — whether as a man or a woman — by arguing about what is not essential.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Jaidyn
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby Jaidyn » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:03 am


PeterB
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Re: Buddhism hard for the righteous woman among unjust men

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:11 am

:goodpost:

Aint that the truth.

In my opinion the internet provides both a fertile ground for debate, and also a fertile ground for those inclined to make statements way beyond their own level of personal experience, and then to defend those same statements by dogma.
The one thing needful is cushion time under good direction.


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