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Buddhist catagories of logic - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhist catagories of logic

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Prasadachitta
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Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:20 pm

My freind said the following and I thought it might be an interesting topic for discussion.

"A Thought: The four 'logical' categories found in Buddhist Literature (which never made sense to me) could perhaps be understood as four ways of grasping a view - i.e. 1. This is True 2. This is False. 3. This is neither True nor False (Relativism) 4. This is both True and False (All is One). The Buddha would reject attachment to each of these positions." Anonymous freind of Prasadachitta


Metta All

Prasadachitta
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

chownah
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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby chownah » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:51 am

It could be what you say is correct. My take on this is that there are four possibilities (logically) which can be postulated for the taking of two things whether the two things are True and False or Up and Down....they are 1.take the one, 2.take the other, 3. take neither, 4. take both. So....to be rigorous in a discussion one should account for all four even though in ordinary discussion we usually focus on the first two and sometimes the third through relativity as you mentioned....the last one is usually ignored except as another quirky expression or relativity. If we only consider the first two then we might be led to believe that the truth or falsity of a view is of the utmost importance and encourage us to cling to views and lose track of the fact that all views are to be dropped eventually regardless of their "truth" or "falsity"....if we consider the last two we can see the limits of "truth" or "falsity" and thus are gently directed toward dispassion with regard to views......I guess.......

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby ground » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:05 am


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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:57 am

Hi Tmingyur

Perhaps calling them "Buddhist" categories is not quite right but they are in the Pali cannon (Yamaka Sutta) as categories of reckoning.

I dont think I did refer to Nagarjuna.

Metta

Prasadachitta
Last edited by Prasadachitta on Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby ground » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:14 am


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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:43 am

Have a listen to lecture six (I think) of Analayo's recent study program, it talks about this and I found it a very useful 'interpretation'


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:36 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:53 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:57 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

chownah
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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby chownah » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:18 pm

The four way logic appears also in:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
SN 44.6 PTS: S iv 388 CDB ii 1386
Sariputta-Kotthita Sutta: Sariputta and Kotthita (4)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004–2011

An excerpt:
"............................
does the Tathagata exist after death?"

"That, friend, has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata exists after death.'"

"Well then, friend Kotthita, does the Tathagata not exist after death?"

"Friend, that too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata does not exist after death.'"

"Then does the Tathagata both exist and not exist after death?"

"That has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata both exists and does not exist after death.'"

"Well then, does the Tathagata neither exist nor not exist after death?"

"That too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

..............................."

So I guess this 4 way structure is not specific to the truth or falsity of views but is a more general construction....here doing the same analysis for exist/not exist.....seems to me again that the Buddha is trying to show us the limits of views on existence rather than to encourage us to think that factualness is the important thing about views on existence.....this is similar to my veiw on truthness/falseness of views as discussed before; I think the Buddha is nudging us to see the limitations of truth and to see that whether views are true or not is not the essential feature we need to be concerned with...rather it is the nature of views in general that needs to be understood....in my view....hahahhaha
chownah
P.S. Seems like there are alot of places where this 4 way analysis is used....but I can't think of any off hand....can someone provide others?
chownah
P.P.S. I hope it is ok to present this new example....perhaps you were wanting to only consider the t/f for views....if so then sorry to have gone off topic.
chownah

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:27 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:40 pm


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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:17 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby ground » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:02 am


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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:55 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby ground » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:19 am


chownah
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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby chownah » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:23 pm

I found some more occurances of the 4 way logic:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I can't seem to get my copy and paste fuctions working so I can't provide some text....if I can get it working I'll add some.
chownah

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:19 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Buddhist catagories of logic

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:31 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332


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