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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:50 am 
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Jikan wrote:
How does Tolle explain bodhicitta? (since we're on a Mahayana Buddhism board...)

Does he?

How is one motivated to practice in Tolle's doctrine?


In all fairness Jikan, I entered this forum looking for the differences between theravaden and mahayana buddhism and have found none, just different practicioners. I am personally opposed to having two different forums to discuss the teachings and I think the buddha would have been dissapointed to see this as well.

To end suffering is my motivation. :smile:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:41 am 
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lowlydog wrote:
Hi Astus, I'm hoping that this clip from his book will answer your questions. :smile:


Says the same thing as the short quote.

1. Those who believe that their truth is the real truth are wrong.
2. The truth is universal.
3. The universal truth is what Tolle thinks is the truth.
4. Tolle's truth is some sort of essentialism that has not been specified in the quotes.

What is obvious, however, is that Tolle believes that the Hindu's atman is the same as buddha-nature, something that is not accepted in Buddhism.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Off topic discussion moved here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:48 pm 
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lowlydog wrote:
Jikan wrote:
How does Tolle explain bodhicitta? (since we're on a Mahayana Buddhism board...)

Does he?

How is one motivated to practice in Tolle's doctrine?


In all fairness Jikan, I entered this forum looking for the differences between theravaden and mahayana buddhism and have found none, just different practicioners. I am personally opposed to having two different forums to discuss the teachings and I think the buddha would have been dissapointed to see this as well.

To end suffering is my motivation. :smile:


That's a good motivation. Whose suffering?

The main question I put to the board (I don't mean to put lowlydog on the spot here) is still open: how does Tolle teach the motivation to practice? Is there anything like a bodhisattva's intention in Tolle's doctrine?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Lineage itself isn't important, but what it delivers is.
How exactly can you seperate the
lineage from what it delivers? What the lineage delivers cannot exist without the lineage (deliverer), and the lineage would not exist if it did not have something to deliver.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:16 pm 
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martin123 wrote:
Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(
A wall exists on both sides of the wall. You cannot have a one sided wall. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:23 pm 
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martin123 wrote:
Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(


if by "ignorance" you mean "people asking questions in the interest of public knowledge," then yes, I suppose so.

Since you brought it up, I'd like to know how one can "bring light to Tolle."

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:30 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
martin123 wrote:
Dear
lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(
A wall exists on both
sides of the wall. You cannot have a one sided wall. ;)

yes, a wall has 2 sides,its a pity there is a wall at all....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:47 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Lineage itself isn't important, but what it delivers is.
How exactly can you seperate the
lineage from what it delivers? What the lineage delivers cannot exist without the lineage (deliverer), and the lineage would not exist if it did not have something to deliver.
:namaste:



Heh, ok. it seems If this were true tradition itself would exist in a permanent state, and it would never change. And yet, every lineage or tradition of anything ever is in a constant state of flux. Why would the yanas even be called "yana" if this was the case, there would be no reason for conventional terms like those, there would be no need for vehicles that take one to the truth of a thing, because the teaching would be the thing itself. If lineage or tradition is of the exact same stuff as what it imparts, why does it ever change, and why is it even needed to have different vehicles to reach the same truth of a thing?

So perhaps my basic answer would be that because the truth of a thing (and not just some ultimate truth, even conventional ones) is difficult to come to, it requires alot of play with falsity and/or artifice to grasped..that is the entire purpose of a 'tradition' of any kind. All the stuff about transcending form after dwelling in form that one finds in Zen and martial arts for instance, is an example of the concept. It's a conventional concept, but as such it's a fine description of the function of lineage or tradition IMO.

Maybe you can explain to me where you believe my thinking is wrong here, so i'm completely positive on what you are asking, and what you are trying to demonstrate to me, other than just to demonstrate (as some of my countrymen might say) that you can be "more-righterer" than me ;)

:crying: :crying:

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Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Jikan wrote:
martin123 wrote:
Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(


if by "ignorance" you mean "people asking questions in the interest of public knowledge," then yes, I suppose so.

Since you brought it up, I'd like to know how one can "bring light to Tolle."

By ignorance i mean being uninformed and making judgements and forming opinions which is a little more than asking questions.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Jikan wrote:
martin123 wrote:
Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(


if by "ignorance" you mean "people asking questions in the interest of public knowledge," then yes, I suppose so.

Since you brought it up, I'd like to know how one can "bring light to Tolle."

"Bring light on Tolle" i simply mean that thr OP brought him up,dont read to much into it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Jikan wrote:
That's a good motivation. Whose suffering?

The main question I put to the board (I don't mean to put lowlydog on the spot here) is still open: how does Tolle teach the motivation to practice? Is there anything like a bodhisattva's intention in Tolle's doctrine?


There is suffering.

When the wisdom of this noble truth has arisen then one understands suffering.

To end suffering is the motivation to practice, in the beginning this may be of a selfish nature but as one progresses on the path the view of suffering changes as does the view of self.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Astus wrote:
lowlydog wrote:
Hi Astus, I'm hoping that this clip from his book will answer your questions. :smile:


Says the same thing as the short quote.

1. Those who believe that their truth is the real truth are wrong.
2. The truth is universal.
3. The universal truth is what Tolle thinks is the truth.
4. Tolle's truth is some sort of essentialism that has not been specified in the quotes.

What is obvious, however, is that Tolle believes that the Hindu's atman is the same as buddha-nature, something that is not accepted in Buddhism.


1. At the ultimate level Truth cannot be believed only experienced.
2. Truth is God, the law of nature is truth.
3. Tolle experiences truth, one cannot think truth.
4. Read his books.

Depends on how you interpret words, words have different meanings to different people. :smile:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Heh, ok. it seems If this were true tradition itself would exist in a permanent state, and it would never change. And yet, every lineage or tradition of anything ever is in a constant state of flux. Why would the yanas even be called "yana" if this was the case, there would be no reason for conventional terms like those, there would be no need for vehicles that take one to the truth of a thing, because the teaching would be the thing itself. If lineage or tradition is of the exact same stuff as what it imparts, why does it ever change, and why is it even needed to have different vehicles to reach the same truth of a thing?
This is a straw man, and an extremely flimsy one at that.
Quote:
...what you are trying to demonstrate to me, other than just to demonstrate (as some of my countrymen might say) that you can be "more-righterer" than me.
I'm not trying to demonstrate anything to you, nor am I trying to be "more righterer", I am just pointing out the fact that lineages exist because they are vehicles for the disemination of practices and practices exist because they have a lineage to perpetuate them. I don't see what could possibly be causing you confusion here??? If there was no lineage of practitioners how would the practice get to you? If there was no practice then what would the lineage be a lineage of? :shrug:
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:08 am 
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I didn't say there was no lineage Greg, I said a lineage isn't the same thing as what it imparts. If you're going to bother trying to correct the flaws in my thinking, how about not misquoting me?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:18 am 
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So what is a lineage if it is not "what it imparts"?

It's like saying fire and its heat are two seperate things.

Anyway,it's not really all that important, believe what you wish. I'm off to bed.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:17 am 
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martin123 wrote:
Dear lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(


http://youtu.be/uUryeDLpY_c

Never under estimate the power of the truth, A meditator soon realizes the difference between apparent and actual truth: that what appears solid, hard, and impenetrable at the gross level is actually nothing but wavelets and vibrations at the subtler level. :smile:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:24 am 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
So what is a lineage if it is not "what it imparts"?

It's like saying fire and its heat are two seperate things.

Anyway,it's not really all that important, believe what you wish. I'm off to bed.
:namaste:


Since you've given me no reason to disbelieve what I wrote, nor any real argument against it (which i'm certainly open to by the way), i'll leave it at that.l

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:23 am 
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lowlydog wrote:
martin123 wrote:
Dear
lowlydog, i commend your effort and interest to bring light to Tolle
into this forum,but alas i'm afraid your effort will be in vain as there
is a hard wall of ignorance it seem :(


http://youtu.be/uUryeDLpY_c

Never under estimate the power of the truth, A meditator soon realizes
the difference between apparent and actual truth: that what appears
solid, hard, and impenetrable at the gross level is actually nothing but
wavelets and vibrations at the subtler level. :smile:

i agree 100% :)

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