Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

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Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby San Feng zhen ren » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:05 am

Hey Guys ive been reading through Hsuan Hua,other buddhist sutras and Hsu Yun ,therefore coming to a confusion :juggling:
im trying to understand whats going on here.

Hsuan Hua Talks of four stages of Dhyana and sitting practice... his first Dhyana explanation on the fact that external breathing stops and the true breathing occurs on one of his explanations yet i read not a consistent method of one practice,it seems there are many practices the masters mention.

There is a hua tou practice which Hsu Yun practices,at other times i read mentioning about Reciting buddhas name or counting breaths or putting mind on breath until true breathing occurs ...
So i read so many practices,so many ways and yet there seem to be pointing to something
Then at a most important point in all this is the true method of Nurturing energy with Samadhi and Hsuan Hua speaks in the same language as Liu yi Ming Taoist patriarch and Mencius
Here is his saying"

"""Attached to marks,
whatever you do is wrong;
But in non-activity
you fall into emptiness.
“What should I do?” you ask. It is just at this point that the
greatest difficulty arises, but if you handle it, just that is nothought.



Now he says..its at this point that the greatest difficulty arises,now liu yi ming says this exact thing is one of his texts

Hsuan Hua mentions the way to practice here
Practice consists of cultivating the mind and nurturing the nature. You must constantly observe your discursive thoughts to see what kind of thoughts are predominant. Are the majority of your thoughts concerning greed and desire? Do your thoughts contain more anger and rage than anything else? Does stupidity dominate your thinking? Reflect inwardly and examine yourself. If you can purify your mind of these discursive thoughts, you are having a response in your work. Whether you sit in full lotus, in half lotus, or casually, the essential thing is to get rid of discursive thoughts so that genuine wisdom can appear. As long as the false is not ended, the true will not manifest. In cultivating we work on the mind-ground. That is called the Mind Ground Dharma door: causing the mind to become pure. If you can be pure for one instant, you are on Magic Mountain in that one instant. If you can be pure at all times, you are always on Magic Mountain. Regardless of whether you recite the Buddha's name, hold mantras, keep the precepts, expound the teachings, or sit in Chan meditation, the goal is to focus the mind on a single point, to cast out the false and retain the true. At all times, look within yourself and recognize your original face(what does he mean by this?-how does one look within like he is speaking of).


That is the method to use at the initial stages of practice.

So my real question is :
What is the real method to bring out this true energy?
What does he mean by focus mind on single point here,because he seems to say its just a matter of sitting or calming down oneslef and reflecting inwardly so therefore
is reflecting inwardly the true method? but they seem to suggest different practices and yet not just reflecting inwardly,hmm scratched head

Then there is this below

“That hill is called Tender Peach Hill. If you have eaten there seven times you must have been here seven years. What sort of Way do you want to learn from me?”
“That depends what you teach me, master. As long as there's a whiff of Way to it, your disciple will learn it.”
“There are three hundred and sixty side-entrances to the Way, and they all lead to a True Result,” the Patriarch said. “Which branch would you like to study?”
“I will do whatever you think best, master,” replied Monkey.
“Shall I teach you the Way of Sects?” the Patriarch asked.
“What are the principles of the Sects?” said Monkey.
“Within the branch of Sects, there is Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, the study of the Negative and Positive, Mohism, medicine, reading scriptures and chanting the name of a Buddha. You can also summon Immortals and Sages with this branch.”
“Can you attain immortality that way?” asked Monkey.
“To try and attain immortality that way,” the Patriarch replied, “is like 'putting a pillar in the wall.'”
“Master,” Monkey said, “I'm a simple chap and I can't understand your technical jargon. What do you mean by 'putting a pillar in the wall?'”
“When a man builds a house and wants to make it strong he puts a pillar in the wall. But when the day comes for his mansion to collapse the pillar is bound to rot.”
“From what you say,” Monkey observed, “it's not eternal. No. Shan't learn it.”
“Shall I teach you the Way of Silence?” the Patriarch then asked.
“What True Result can be got from Silence?” said Monkey.
“It involves abstaining from grain, preserving one's essence, silence, inaction, meditation, abstaining from speech, eating vegetarian food, performing certain exercises when asleep or standing up, going into trances, and being walled up in total isolation.”
“Is this a way of becoming immortal?” Monkey asked.
“It's like building the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks,” the patriarch replied.
“You do go on, master,” said Sun Wukong. “I've already told you that I can't understand your technical jargon. What does 'building the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks' mean?”
“If you build the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks they may make it look all right, but if they have not been hardened with fire and water, then they will crumble away in the first heavy rainstorm.”
“There's nothing eternal about that either, then,” replied Monkey. “No. Shan't learn that.”
“Shall I teach you the Way of Action then?” the Patriarch asked.
“What's that like?” Monkey asked.
“It involves acting and doing, extracting the Negative and building up the Positive, drawing the bow and loading the crossbow, rubbing the navel to make the subtle humors flow, refining elixirs according to formulae, lighting fires under cauldrons, consuming 'Red lead,' purifying 'Autumn Stone,' and drinking women's milk.”
“Can doing things like that make me live for ever?” Monkey asked.
“To try and attain immortality that way is like 'lifting the moon out of water.'”


Any help on this will be helping me fight out of birth and death
Thanks and me getting out will be partial merit to you guys :cheers: ooopps against precepts :rules: ....
So maybe i should put :namaste:
San Feng zhen ren
 
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Re: Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby songhill » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:26 am

Maybe this will help — I don't know.

While still alive, be therefore assiduous in practising Dhyana. The practice consists in abandonments. ‘The abandonment of what?’ you may ask. Abandon your four elements (bhuta), abandon your five aggregates (skandha), abandon all the workings of your relative consciousness (karmavijnana), which you have been cherishing since eternity; retire within your inner being and see into the reason of it. As your self-reflection grows deeper and deeper, the moment will surely come upon you when the spiritual flower will suddenly burst into bloom, illuminating the entire universe. The experience is incommunicable, though you yourselves know perfectly well what it is. -- Szu-hsin Wu-shin of Huang-lung (1044–1115) D.T. Suzuki, Essays in Zen Buddhism (1933).
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Re: Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby Astus » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:50 pm

If you are interested in Chan, you can start with these:

Teachings of Master Hsu Yun
Getting Started
Dharma Drum: Free Literature
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby Jinzang » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:16 pm

If you are new to meditation, the best way to start is by following the breath. This is especially true if you don't have ready access to a teacher. I assume you don't, as you are asking here. Instructions can be found in many places on the Internet. There are small differences, but these don't matter, just practice the way that works best for you.

Please don't get too caught up in the instructions you quote here. They are intended for advanced practitioners and not beginners.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby xabir » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:18 am

San Feng zhen ren wrote:At all times, look within yourself and recognize your original face(what does he mean by this?-how does one look within like he is speaking of).
If you have realized your original face, you will know. If you have not, then do hua tou: before my parents were born, what is my original face? Before all thoughts, what is my original face? I can testify the effectiveness of the koan 'before birth, who am I?' at resulting in direct realization of your original face (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/ ... urnal.html). Your original face is not just a void, it is not merely insentient but completely bright and aware, what is it? What are you?

If you are practicing Ven. Hsu Yun's method, focus on hua tou, the rest are simply means of 'preparing the mind' for hua tou.

Another way is to do Guan Yin's turning the radiance around:

http://luminousemptiness.blogspot.sg/20 ... -mind.html

Question: In our case, what is this mind of void and calm, numinous awareness?

Chinul: What has just asked me this question is precisely your mind of void and calm, numinous awareness. Why not trace back its radiance rather than search for it outside? For your benefit I will now point straight to your original mind so that you can awaken to it. Clear your mind and listen to my words.

From morning to evening, throughout the twelve periods of the day, during all your actions and activities ... ultimately who is it that is able to perform all these actions? Speak! ... You should know that what is capable of seeing, hearing, moving and acting has to be your original mind: it is not your physical body. Furthermore, the four elements which make up the physical body are by nature void; they are like images in a mirror, or the moon's reflection in water. How can they be clear and constantly aware, always bright and never obscured - and, upon activation, be able to put into operation sublime functions as numerous as the sands of the Ganges? For this reason it is said, 'Drawing water and carrying firewood are spiritual powers and sublime functions.'

There are many points at which to enter the noumenon. I will indicate one approach which will allow you to return to the source ... Do you hear the sounds of that crow cawing and that magpie calling?

Student: Yes.

Chinul: Trace them back and listen to your hearing-nature. Do you hear any sounds?

Student: At that place, sounds and discriminations do not obtain.

Chinul: Marvellous! Marvellous! This is Avalokiteshvara's method for entering the noumenon. Let me ask you again. You said that sound and discriminations do not obtain at that place. But since they do not obtain, isn't the hearing-nature just empty space at such a time?

Student: Originally it is not empty. It is always bright and never obscured.

Chinul: What is this essence which is not empty?

Student: As it has no form or shape, words cannot describe it.


What is the real method to bring out this true energy?
What does he mean by focus mind on single point here,because he seems to say its just a matter of sitting or calming down oneslef and reflecting inwardly so therefore
is reflecting inwardly the true method? but they seem to suggest different practices and yet not just reflecting inwardly,hmm scratched head
Calm down the discursive thoughts. Then investigate, what is your original face before thinking? This is Ch'an Patriarch Hui-neng's question.

Hui Neng said, "Since the object of your coming is the Dharma, refrain from thinking of anything and keep your mind empty. I will then teach you." They meditated together for a considerable time, then Hui Neng asked Hui Ming, "When you are thinking of neither good nor evil, at this particular moment, what is your original nature (Buddha Nature)?" As soon as Hui Ming heard this, he instantly became enlightened. Hui Ming then further asked, "Apart from those esoteric sayings and esoteric ideas handed down by the Fifth Patriarch from generation to generation, are there any other esoteric teachings?" Hui Neng replied, "What I can tell you is not esoteric. If you turn your light inwardly you will find what is esoteric within you."
Any help on this will be helping me fight out of birth and death
Thanks and me getting out will be partial merit to you guys :cheers: ooopps against precepts :rules: ....
So maybe i should put :namaste:
You are a sincere seeker. Best of luck to your practice and may you gain enlightenment quickly.
xabir
 
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Re: Hua tou,mind on breath,reciting etc,which one and why?

Postby San Feng zhen ren » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:06 am

Thanks for your insightful replies.
Ill be going though all your advice :bow:

And on an extra note The Chinul to Student dialogue was extremely helpful
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