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We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun. - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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ground
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby ground » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:39 am


rowyourboat
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:35 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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bodom
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby bodom » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:52 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Dan74
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:03 am

_/|\_

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FaceaceRAWR
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby FaceaceRAWR » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:57 pm


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Ben
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Ben » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:13 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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FaceaceRAWR
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby FaceaceRAWR » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Yes, may I progress. :heart:

My birthday is in four days and the only things I desire is knowledge to help me along the path. For what this forum is giving me, I can not express the gratitude I feel. :hug:

Sincerely,
Ace :strawman:

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robertk
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:04 am


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Ben
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Ben » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:25 am

Hi Robert,

Its from a mimeographed biography of Saya Thetgyi that I read at his meditation centre in Pyebwegi. I regret not retaining it when it was offered. At the time I seemed to have recalled having read the same biography before - perhaps its in John Coleman's "Quiet Mind", or perhaps an earlier incarnation of the mimeographed biography that I had seen at Vipassana Centres in India or the west.

Also at the Centre at Pyebwegi, I had seen recent photos of bhikkhu sangha members in group photos at Saya Thetgyi's centre on the wall there and in a photo album. Some of the Americans I was with, it was their second visit, told me that on their first visit that the centre was filled with monks doing a meditation retreat. The custodians of the centre, through a translator, also mentioned that large retreats of monks are held there - perhaps several times a year.

I may have taken a photo of one of the group photos on the wall which was captioned. I'll have a look tonight on my external hard drive. There maybe some more material in some International Meditation Centre publications which I picked up and brought home with me. I'll check tonight.

Unfortuntely, my trip to the Archives and Library of Buddhism under Shwedagon Paya bore no fruit. I had gone wishing to do some research on the history of meditation practices in Myanmar. I got there only to be told that I needed a letter from the University of Rangoon authorizing me to do research. I also had the opportunity to stay at SITAGU University in Sagaing but didn't avail myself on that occassion. Next time, perhaps.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Dhammanucara
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Dhammanucara » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:22 pm

I just stumbled upon this post and found it correlated with my thought some time ago. When I adopted the Theravadan path, many of my friends actually asked me: are you going to be a monk? are you not going to have a family? In that case, how do you even need to study and work now? (at that time I was still a student).

To be honest, I find it difficult to answer the question. I could not deny the emphasis placed by the Buddha on the greater utility of renouncing the householder's life and entering into a renunciate's life. At the same time, I could not totally deny the householder's life either. Besides, living in a society governed by Confucian values further erodes the image of Theravada Buddhism and the value of monkhood. A person is supposed to get a good education, get a job to support his parents who had worked hard when he was young, get married and have children to continue the family lineage, and at that time, I'm just a college-attending student. How am I supposed to defy this order?

At this point of dilemma, I encountered my teacher, the late Ven Suvanno Mahathera from Malaysia. His biography was so inspiring as if I was awakened to a new truth. Called "Striving to be a Nobody," it narrates his life from young from the moment he was "dumped" by his mother and raised in a unfriendly environment up to the moment he became a Maha-Thera. It was said that, Ven Suvanno had been a practicing Buddhist even before becoming a monk. He first found solace in Buddhism in his childhood and realized the meaning of dukkha through his own hardships. Since then he had always harnessed the intention to renounce the householder's life, but then he persisted until having a basic education, a stable job and finally had a family with children. Then, at the age of 60 (if I remembered correctly), after his children were all well-established in values and their lives and his wife having a stable on-going income to survive, he renounced the householder's life. One thing that struck my mind was one of his messages in the book that learning and practicing Buddhism does not solely mean renouncing your current life; in fact, (Ven Suvanno) believed that his continuous engagement in Buddhist practice of Dhamma and meditation during his householder's life provides a strong foundational background for his monkhood and further enhances his practice later as a monk.

With metta,
Dhammanucara :anjali:

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Epistemes
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Epistemes » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:52 pm

I'm not really sure I follow all this talk about the difference between householder vs. bhikkhu Buddhism, but I can say that as an outsider looking in, Buddhism definitely seems to sap the fun out of life. I remember after reading Steve Hagen's book 12 years ago I thought Buddhism was a breath of fresh air and I remember trying hard to practice the Eightfold Path and still having fun, but now, as I'm older and reading this forum and Dharma Wheel, reading the books and trying to practice meditation, Buddhism is like every other dogmatic institution controlled by people. Life was more enjoyable before I tried pretending to be a Buddhist again.
The wind spins without end,
one moment southward,
the next moment northward.

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daverupa
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby daverupa » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:55 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:13 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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altar
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby altar » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:07 pm

of interest is the sutta where a householder, perhaps a niganthan, debates with the buddha. the buddha "wins" and the layman emphatically wishes to be his follower. But the Buddha says to him to inquire, that he is a householder of much status, and to inquire first.
it believe its in the MN.

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mikenz66
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:08 pm


freefall68
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby freefall68 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:03 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:11 am

Greetings Freefall,

Thanks for sharing.

Whilst of course what you said isn't Theravada, it is certainly appreciated, because many of us are to different degrees unfamiliar with the Indian religious diaspora, against which the Buddha's teaching is invariably set. It's useful context.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Prasadachitta
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:14 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

grasshopper
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby grasshopper » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:38 am


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DarwidHalim
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Re: We don't want to renounce. We want to have fun.

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:04 pm

Depending on our individual capacity in understanding the meaning of renunciation.

To me, it is because I renounce this samsara, finally I can have fun.

Without renunciation, the fun that I have is the fun covered by fire.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!


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