YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Dishonoring Noble Ones - Dhamma Wheel

Dishonoring Noble Ones

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
pelletboy
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 12:58 pm

Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby pelletboy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:01 pm

What should one do when one has dishonored Noble Ones? I read that one should apologize face to face, if this is not possible, to apologize in the direction of the Noble One(something like that) are these correct? What are the ways to make up for such a sin as this? Specifically if the Noble One is not in one's country or in vicinity. The said methods to make up for the sin is for one Noble One, what if one has lost count of the Noble Ones one has dishonored? Is there a way to make up for this? What about dishonoring Noble Ones by reaction like when a Noble One inadvertently teaches a wrong view to the layman and the layman, by self-protection, mentally dishonors the Noble One. Does this count as dishonoring Noble Ones? If so, how should one make up for it?

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby Ben » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:08 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Stiphan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby Stiphan » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Last edited by Stiphan on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pelletboy
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby pelletboy » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:06 am

@stefan:
"Kāyena vācāya va cetasā vā, Buddhe kukammaṃ pakataṃ mayā yaṃ, Buddho paṭiggaṇhatu accayantaṃ, Kālantare saṃvarituṃ va buddhe.

Whatever bad kamma I have done to the Buddha by body, by speech, or by mind, may the Buddha accept my admission of it, so that in the future I may show restraint toward the Buddha.

Whatever bad kamma I have done to the Sangha by body, by speech, or by mind, may the Sangha accept my admission of it, so that in the future I may restraint toward the Sangha."

Are these from the Tipitaka? I went to the site you linked but its in Thai...

"An additional rule is not to speak with contempt, in jest, or with malice to or about any of the noble ones who have attained states of sanctity. If you have done so, then personally apologize to him or her or make an apology through your meditation instructor. If in the past you have spoken contemptuously to a noble one who is at present unavailable or deceased, confess this offense to your meditation instructor or introspectively to yourself."
Is this also said in the Tipitaka?

User avatar
Stiphan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby Stiphan » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:43 am

Hi pelletboy, I don't think they're from the Tipitaka. The former quote I stumbled upon some website (forgot its URL, but not the Thai one), while the latter is a quote by Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw in his introduction to his practical vipassana exercises.

chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby chownah » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:01 am

Worship the buddha?....I guess....maybe not....don't know for sure........wha?
chownah

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:13 am

Pelletboy;

You seem to be concerned with many matters people would consider to be religious myths and superstitions. Did you grow up in an Asian Buddhist country. No offense to you, Asians or Buddhists. I asked because I don't think people who haven't come from that background would be concerned about those things.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1720
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Dishonoring Noble Ones

Postby gavesako » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:36 pm

These forms of asking for forgiveness have evolved in the Asian countries over centuries but when done with a pure intention they can free the mind from worry or remorse and prepare it for meditation or for making a big step in one's life like ordination etc. Traditionally also there formulas are used:

ukāsa vandāmi bhante
sabbam aparādham khamatha me bhante
mayā katam puññam sāminā anumoditabbam
sāminā katam puññam mayham dātabbam
sādhu sādhu anumodāmi.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com


Ukāsa, dvāra-tayena kataṃ, sabbaṃ apāradhaṃ khamatu no (me) bhante.
We (I) ask your leave. We (I) ask you to forgive us (me) for whatever wrong we (I) have done with the three doors (of body, speech, & mind).


Vandāmi bhante cetiyaṃ, sabbaṃ sabbattha ṭhāne, supatiṭṭhitaṃ sārīraṅka-dhātuṃ, mahā-bodhiṃ buddha-rūpaṃ, sakkāratthaṃ.
I revere every stupa established in every place, every Relic of the Buddha's body, every Great Bodhi tree, every Buddha image that is an object of veneration.


Ahaṃ vandāmi dhātuyo, ahaṃ vandāmi sabbaso, iccetaṃ ratana-tayaṃ, ahaṃ vandāmi sabbadā.
I revere the relics. I revere them everywhere. I always revere the Triple Gem.

http://www.dhammatalks.org/dhamma/chanting/verses2.htm


15. Khamāyācanā

Kāyena vācā cittena

Pamādena mayā katam

Accayam khama me bhante

Bhūripañña tathāgata!



15. Forgiveness of Faults

If by deeds, speech or thoughts heedlessly

I have committed any wrong-doing

Forgive me, O Venerable,

O Victor, Greatly Wise!

http://www.buddhismotheravada.it/16.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine