Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

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Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 pm

It is possible that Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche may transmit the wangs of the Nyingma Kama at Orgyen Dorje Den, in Alameda, CA, (U.S.), starting in Mid February and continuing for about a month. Rinpoche has been unable to commit 100%, but this tentative date has been scheduled. The website http://www.orgyendorjeden.org is not updated regularly; they communicate via email. There is no need to email them for more info: as of today they don't know any more than that. Sign up for their email list if you want to be kept up to date, they are very good at releasing information as soon as they receive it.

The Nyingma Kama:
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Kama

Some bio on Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche, from when he gave the RInchen Terdzod at the same center:
http://www.orgyendorjeden.org/RT_YTR.html

Hope to see some of you old Dharma geeks there!
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Wow, am I jealous or what that I don't have access to stuf like this!!! You lucky blighters! Oh, well, next lifetime! :(
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:32 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Wow, am I jealous or what that I don't have access to stuf like this!!! You lucky blighters! Oh, well, next lifetime! :(


Gyatrul Rinpoche and his disciples really have done the most to establish the entire Nyingma lineage--not just one or two terma traditions--in the U.S. While we all have our own teachers, centers, and sub-lineages to serve, practice and support, it's good to keep Orgyen Dorje Den and Tashi Choling, in our prayers. They are working their you-know-whats off for the benefit of us sentient beings and the Dharma.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby tomamundsen » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:39 pm

What is a Kama Wang? I would have expected to hear Kama Lung. This basically means he is going to read the entire Nyingma Kama, correct? Do you know if it's likely there will be an English interpreter?
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby ratna » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:24 pm

There are quite a number of wangs in the Nyingma Kama, starting from Kriya deities such as Medicine Buddha up to the grand wangchens of Maha and Anu, and the three series of Dzogchen.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:55 pm

tomamundsen wrote:What is a Kama Wang? I would have expected to hear Kama Lung. This basically means he is going to read the entire Nyingma Kama, correct? Do you know if it's likely there will be an English interpreter?


Yes, they have only mentioned wangs so far. I don't know whether all the lungs will be given. The ODD folks will probably announce that when he says he is sure he can come. You may notice there has been no big announcement yet. But, they are begin kind enough to give the approximate date because some people have put their lives on hold so that they can attend this.

I'm sure there will be a translator. Their usual translator is Sangye Khandro.

This is a really big deal. I told one elder Nyingma lama I know, and he is going to come down receive it a second time (if it happens.) All the lamas really respect Yangthang Tulku and he is not getting any younger.

For me, I'm going because I am not a good practitioner, and I think I need to receive lots of blessings.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby heart » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:49 pm

http://nyingma-kater.blogspot.se/2012/0 ... nding.html

I found this, an amazing collection of empowerment's it seems like.

/magnus
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:20 pm

heart wrote:http://nyingma-kater.blogspot.se/2012/05/this-blog-is-dedicated-to-understanding.html

I found this, an amazing collection of empowerment's it seems like.

/magnus


Quite a find! It looks like it took him a couple of weeks to do these wangs. Maybe if he stays for a month he can do the lungs as well.

It's funny--among other things, this is clearly where three of the nine yanas of the Nyingma system are transmitted to us. The three that are virtually never practiced anymore.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:22 pm

Yudron wrote:It's funny--among other things, this is clearly where three of the nine yanas of the Nyingma system are transmitted to us. The three that are virtually never practiced anymore.

Can you please expand and clarify this statement a little.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Yeti wrote:
Yudron wrote:It's funny--among other things, this is clearly where three of the nine yanas of the Nyingma system are transmitted to us. The three that are virtually never practiced anymore.

Can you please expand and clarify this statement a little.


The only time I have ever experienced the outer tantras--kriya, charya, yogatantras ( the fourth through 6th yanas, respectively), was when a Khenpo told me at a Stupa consecration that the ceremony was from the outer tantras. In the Nyingma circles in which I travel, the only practices we do are ngondro and the inner tantras, and all these are done with the view of the 9th yana, Dzogchen.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:35 am

Yudron wrote:
Yeti wrote:
Yudron wrote:It's funny--among other things, this is clearly where three of the nine yanas of the Nyingma system are transmitted to us. The three that are virtually never practiced anymore.

Can you please expand and clarify this statement a little.


The only time I have ever experienced the outer tantras--kriya, charya, yogatantras ( the fourth through 6th yanas, respectively), was when a Khenpo told me at a Stupa consecration that the ceremony was from the outer tantras. In the Nyingma circles in which I travel, the only practices we do are ngondro and the inner tantras, and all these are done with the view of the 9th yana, Dzogchen.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas

There are many empowerment cycles in the terma tradition that contain outer, inner, secret and most secret sadhanas. One that comes to mind is the Dakini cycle from the Longchen Nyingthik, where the outer is Tara, the inner is Dechen Gyalmo, etc, etc. So the outer cycle is an outer tantra practice, not an inner like the rest of the cycle. I'm pretty sure this is not an isolated case.

Also, amongst the Kahma cycle, there are quite a number of empowerments that are intended for only vidhyadharas. It states in the empowerment text that one has to be on one of the vidhyadhara levels to receive those empowerments, so AFAIK they must have been intended specifically for those practitioners at that time. I guess the rest of us just receive some sort of blessing when attending those empowerments.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:59 am

As stated here, http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Category:Dudjom_Tersar, you have;

  • The "Tsokyi Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Lama;
  • The "Khandro Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Khandro

There's many termas which contain the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas in their cycle.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yudron » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:06 am

Yeti wrote:As stated here, http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Category:Dudjom_Tersar, you have;

  • The "Tsokyi Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Lama;
  • The "Khandro Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Khandro

There's many termas which contain the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas in their cycle.


No, the outer, inner, etc.. when used in that context do not refer to the outer tantras versus the inner tantras. Different schema. All the Dudjom Tersar sadhanas you named belong to Mahayoga -- usually maha-ati. Even in places where there is an external deity as well as an internal one, such as Orgyen Menlha, they are all Mahayoga. I've done all these practices extensively and received teachings on them.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:38 am

Yudron wrote:
Yeti wrote:As stated here, http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Category:Dudjom_Tersar, you have;

  • The "Tsokyi Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Lama;
  • The "Khandro Thugthig" cycle, for the practices on the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas of the Khandro

There's many termas which contain the outer, inner, secret and innermost secret sadhanas in their cycle.


No, the outer, inner, etc.. when used in that context do not refer to the outer tantras versus the inner tantras. Different schema. All the Dudjom Tersar sadhanas you named belong to Mahayoga -- usually maha-ati. Even in places where there is an external deity as well as an internal one, such as Orgyen Menlha, they are all Mahayoga. I've done all these practices extensively and received teachings on them.

Okay, thanks.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby heart » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:45 am

Yudron wrote:
Yeti wrote:
Yudron wrote:It's funny--among other things, this is clearly where three of the nine yanas of the Nyingma system are transmitted to us. The three that are virtually never practiced anymore.

Can you please expand and clarify this statement a little.


The only time I have ever experienced the outer tantras--kriya, charya, yogatantras ( the fourth through 6th yanas, respectively), was when a Khenpo told me at a Stupa consecration that the ceremony was from the outer tantras. In the Nyingma circles in which I travel, the only practices we do are ngondro and the inner tantras, and all these are done with the view of the 9th yana, Dzogchen.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas


The very famous green tara from Chokling Tersar is considered kriya tantra. The Nyungye fasting ritual, quite wides spread, is also kriya. But in general I think you are right, it is mainly inner tantras.

/magnus
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:04 pm

tomamundsen wrote:What is a Kama Wang? I would have expected to hear Kama Lung. This basically means he is going to read the entire Nyingma Kama, correct? Do you know if it's likely there will be an English interpreter?


Tom, I think perhaps you're confusing kama with some other word, like maybe Kangyur? Kama just means oral transmission lineage, as opposed to terma, the rediscovered treasures lineage. If you think of how the overwhelming majority of the Sarma tantric practices have been passed on, that is basically the equivalent of kama means.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:09 pm

I must add that Yangthang Rinpoche is .. I dunno how to appropriately try to capture it in words. But I have always been blown away by him. When you first meet him, you wouldn't expect such a description to be given about him because he just seems like a very sweet, soft-spoken, pleasant old man without an ounce of pretense and just completely effortlessly easygoing. But just prepare to be blown away. Saddens me that this is likely the last time we'll ever be blessed with his presence in the U.S., assuming things come together and he's able to make it here like we're hoping.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:04 pm

heart wrote:The very famous green tara from Chokling Tersar is considered kriya tantra. The Nyungye fasting ritual, quite wides spread, is also kriya. But in general I think you are right, it is mainly inner tantras.
/magnus

Actually I was thinking exactly about this sadhana as even the Gelugpas adopted and practice this sadhana. As they do with Thangtong Gyalpo's Chenrezig sadhana which is also an outer tantra terma.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby Yeti » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:57 pm

I would appreciate it if someone could please clearly explain the difference between the classification of outer, inner, secret and most secret, as related in terma cycles, and how that is a different classification to the one of outer and inner tantras.
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Re: Possible Nyingma Kama Wangs

Postby T. Chokyi » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:36 pm

Yeti wrote:I would appreciate it if someone could please clearly explain the difference between the classification of outer, inner, secret and most secret, as related in terma cycles, and how that is a different classification to the one of outer and inner tantras.


This maybe a good place to start:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... _of_tantra

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