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Mind states in Satipatthana - Dhamma Wheel

Mind states in Satipatthana

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
buddhajunkie
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Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby buddhajunkie » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:59 am


rowyourboat
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:40 pm

Constricted refers to the actual feeling of what the mind feels like when it is focused upon, when it is sleepy.

Scattered refers to a mind which is full of thoughts (the opposite of unified).

Enlarged refers to a mind which is 'stretched' if you like, to cover what feels like a vast space - in the divine abodes or the arupa jhana, IMO.

Surpassed is a mind which is in the jhanas.

:namaste:

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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mikenz66
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:49 pm

Constricted/scattered does appear to be an "odd pair out", in that both members of the pair seem to be negative qualities, whereas the other pairs are negative/positive qualities (with and without aversion, etc).

:anjali:
Mike

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bodom
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby bodom » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:06 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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mikenz66
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Hmm, but the second-last pair has concentrated, doesn't it? Hmmm....

Mike

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bodom
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:31 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Ben
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:30 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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bodom
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:44 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:19 am

Its always a pleasure, my friend!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:43 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:08 pm

Sankhitta is an interesting word here, carrying two very different meanings, and looking at the text RYB quoted, one could argue that the commentary got it wrong, going for the second meaning rather than the first. What would be the deciding factor is how sankhitta is used elsewhere in the suttas in terms of meditation.

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ground
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby ground » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:52 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:56 pm


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bodom
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:04 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:14 pm

Bodhi translates as "cramped" and this also from Soma Thera:

Sankhittam cittam = "The shrunken state of consciousness." The conscious state fallen into sloth and torpor. That is called the shrivelled or contracted state of mind.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... sciousness

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
tiltbillings
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:46 pm

[For all you commentary poo-poo-ers, just a note: all the translations I have looked at of the passages in question follow the commentaries, which says something about need for really learning Pali, and learning it well, if you are going to poo-poo the commentaries.]

Saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ in the few suttas I looked always apperars in this list:


rāgaṃ cittaṃ
dosaṃ cittaṃ
samohaṃ cittaṃ

saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ

mahaggataṃ cittaṃ
uttaraṃ cittaṃ
samāhitaṃ cittaṃ
vimuttaṃ cittaṃ

See viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9364&p=144722#p144704 for the full Pali.

rāgaṃ cittaṃ -- greedy/lustful mind
dosaṃ cittaṃ -- hateful mind
mohaṃ cittaṃ -- delusional mind

saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ

mahaggataṃ cittaṃ -- mind become great
uttaraṃ cittaṃ -- ming crossed over
samāhitaṃ cittaṃ -- mind having attained
vimuttaṃ cittaṃ -- mind liberated.

Now, the pivotal word here is saṅkhittaṃ. Do we read it, along with the commentaries, as contracted or can we read it, as the PTS Dictionary suggests, as concentrated, attentive? I suppose it depends upon how you want to look at the nature of this list. An argument can be made for either reading.

You have a contracted mind, which is what greed, hatred and delusion gives us and this contrasts with a mind become great. Or you have a concentrated mind, which gives rise to a mind that becomes great and all that follows. Lists in the suttas almost always move in a progression, and one could probably argue, reasonably, that in the suttas where this list is given that a progressive reading is appropriate and that saṅkhittaṃ cittaṃ as a concentrated, attentive works as well as, if not better than, the commentarial reading.

rowyourboat
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:10 am

Hi Tilt,

Looking at the list I believe Samahita refers to concentration- and even the Visuddhhimagga commentary (see sankhitta definition already quoted) has it is thina-middha, which is sloth and torpor. It makes sense that the first 4 elements on the list refers to elements of the five hindrances followed by 1) prejhanic samadhi (mahaggatta) 2) jhanic samadhi (sauttara) 3) highest developmenet of fourth jhana/vipassana samadhi (Samahita) 4) enlightened mind (Vimutta). This is just my interpretation. :)

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:17 am


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effort
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby effort » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:10 pm


chownah
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Re: Mind states in Satipatthana

Postby chownah » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:46 am



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