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The mechanics of what we call "belief" - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:15 am


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ground
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby ground » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:23 am

I understand what you say and it is certainly compliant with the teaching but ...


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PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:16 am


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ground
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby ground » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:02 am


PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:18 am

Not " obvious" at all...we dont arrive already cooked...for most people doubt and saddha are a spectrum, not polarities.
Doubt is addressed by practice not debate or refining concepts.

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ground
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby ground » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:48 pm


PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:02 pm

Successful practice DOES depend exclusively on practice qua practice exclusively without needing apriori faith or belief. Practice that is preceded by authentic instruction.
Instruction that when adhered to results in faith and obviates the need for belief.

rowyourboat
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:15 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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ground
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby ground » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:42 pm


PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:55 pm


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ground
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby ground » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:59 pm

So you believe that the guide is experienced and reliable.


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PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:12 pm

Provisionally. At least you suspend your unbelief if the teacher is a part of a reputable set up. Like an Goenka instructor for example. No signing up to doctrinal orthodoxy is necessary to commence the process. Otherwise life would pass many of us by while we haver.

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Prasadachitta
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:40 pm

Hi all,

I think that there is a way of holding faith as provisional which actually supports the efficacy of that faith. This is not what I would call doubt. This way of holding or rather regarding your faith places more weight upon the object faith than on the act of being faithful. The full actuality of the object of faith remains unknown and thus any notion of it and the faith related to that notion are provisional. The efficacy of this is that there arises a nagging desire to know the object. This way faith becomes a process of aspiration. In Dhamma terms this process is the path and faith is the fuel. This kind of relationship to faith is radically different to traditional western understanding of the term. I would simply use the term "saddha" but I think we as a community will benefit from the geologically slow process of nudging our English language into a more useful vehicle for conveying Dhamma.

Metta

Prasadachitta
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

PeterB
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:52 pm

I largely agree with you main premise...but I am not confident that we will ever bend English into a useful tool for Dhamma.
I think its easier and more efficient to learn a smattering of Pali.

But the idea of saddha as provisional makes all sorts of sense.

:anjali:

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Prasadachitta
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

chownah
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby chownah » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:09 am


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Prasadachitta
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Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:35 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332


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