How do you cultivate loving kindness?

[ronnewmexico]

Well a good thread to resurrect.

Don't cultivate it personally. Seems natural to our aware aspect as sentient beings. What exactly else can need to know, cognicize, or understand, be called..... but compassion. And has ever a thing known be known as a thing hated....it seems not. Not enabled necessarily nor even abided but hated....never, if understood.

So cultivate....seems not.

Walking through the forest today... thought I, the thought of intention, as in the theists view of all being planned by some other power for us to then learn..... these particular lessons in this lifetime....typical theism.

I thought then...is it not this I that intends? And is this I not only that which is other. Which is after all that which is caused and circumstantial. What then is the I but this thing so described which teaches and leads to understanding, can it be other than what is....it seems not, but is as is.

REality closely understood being.....self deconstructed, is but reality deconstructed, all being cause and effect in realities expanseive play of awareness. All being essentially lesson learned and learning and what to be learned.....the same.

Can it not be the teacher then is....reality itself.
And reality itself thusly so self creative, can be none other than compassion itself, filled with compassionate intent.

It seems so. So to my opinion there seems nothing to cultivated....it already is. All we need to do is to understand....the rest is automatic.
WE precipitate through force of will a distillant of awareness which contains these things of hate and fear and pain and suffering. Part they are but distillants only, not natural in and of themselves.
No theist intent, will bring these things to their natural state of deconstruct, it seems, we must only deconstruct this will that forces things to be this way. That dissolved....all is understanding and all is thusly compassionate.

So if I were to cultivate this thing.....I would cultivate it by firstly and primarily relaxing into it.
But it seems as stated....that is unnecessary, it is already there. So the permanant cultivation of this particular flower would seems to be no cultivation at all. As a weed in a city sidewalk crack is just inclined to grow if left alone and not bothered with. It is impossible for it not to grow. All that is needed is the allowance of that thing to grow. Cultivate....cultivate things that grow not naturally. This seems not that. Allow ourselves then to feel that way, only a disallowance of stamping out of or crushing force will end this thing. This weed grows everywhere in any circumstance.

But that is just my personal view and not necessarily a buddhist view...I don't know.

[Heruka]

hi ron,

would like your perspective on the modern subliminal drive, for the humanization of technology and the dehumanizing of humanity.

also in plain view the black,white with splash of red symbolisim.

[ronnewmexico]

My appologies to the initial poster for deviating from point...

My perspective....there exist nothing that is human and thusly nothing that can be dehumanized.

That's my personal perspective. Very nice music however.
We replicate with technology only that which we can replicate, which is our perceptions or perspective on how we consider things to be, which unfortunately for these constructs but fortunate for ourselves....not as things really are.

Considereing ourselves as objective wholes which can be remediated constructed or deconstructed is the fatal error which leads inevitably finally to the final deconstruct,(or final surprise) .....All is of composite origin, even our aware aspect display is circumstantially produced.
So that's my perspective on that. More exercises in futile endeavors as are most humans construct inclined to be....doomed to failure inevitably as all constructs are bound to deconstruct...given time.

Given enough time that is. Time measureing change only, and only change.. a timeless realm will never exist of noncomposite origin, for such we would never see nor could claim to see or feel or touch.
Time is as we are. So if we perceive it....it changes. If we know it not....it is changeless.
So all we can know is time. And time it is but us.

So humans.....can only exist in the realm of the construct. Time it knows no such thing...to my personal opinion. Times construct being of one thing producing...even flavor and taste of change derived, without exception. As conception it is not,(time) but perception all. Time=change.
Escape that and I would fear the constructs....till then not. So change is what they may fear, constructs all that which is deconstructed can never fear the deconstruct ...never. It already is considered change and thusly not of constructed permenance, and no enemy can thusly be found.
If found it can only be one.....the construct, and none other. Of no substantiative reality.

[Heruka]

My appologies to the initial poster for deviating from point...

My perspective....there exist nothing that is human and thusly nothing that can be dehumanized.

I of course disagree, and it most certainly on point to OP.

[ronnewmexico]

If ones source of compassion is being human or consideration of being human....what then when one dies and is not human anymore. Does thusly the compassion die as well?
Is one perhaps then considered to continue dead as human? Then what part of human has died? And to what is death then addressed if not the death of a human to humanness?

No I suspect not..compassion is beyond humanity, and source of compassion is not humaness. If so all human would posess it as a posession may be thought. But no it appears not that the case...circumstance it seems as elicits all, elicits compassionate response as well.

What circumstance combined with aware aspect involved result is human presence and compassionate result, perhaps, as result as well. One though dependent upon another perhaps in this consideration be wrongly thought to be sole source or cause. Multiple are all causes and results derived. So thusly greater consideration to this thing of compassion we must envision. So derived we must only conclude when studied in this fashion, human aspect....no, defining aspect congealed in this form as human, but other form as well, is such defining aspect found...suchly common derivitive awareness it only can be and none other.

To confuse such aspect with humanness is selling it far short.
To my opinion..you certainly are welcome to yours.

[kirtu]

However, the problem is when people get stuck in the mindset of "Oh, I only want the essence. All this compassion and merit stuff is just lowly and inferior nonsense" and they end up developing neither wisdom nor compassion, ...

HH Sakya Trizen has said that the essence of Dharma is practicing merit - specifically avoiding creating negative actions and thoughts and cultivating positive actions and thoughts. This is of course straight from the Dharmapada.

I want to say that the entry to the Sravaka vehicle is the practice of lovingkindness but I don't know that I can point to a statement from my lamas saying that. In fact a very respected Thai Bhikkhu said that one can meditate very deeply on impermanence, suffering or non-self in order to attain Arhatship but this is to develop wisdom. So probably the actual entry to the Sravaka vehicle is renunciation.

Then the entry to the Mahayana is the practice of boundless compassion (lots of teaching on that) and lovingkindness is a prerequisite for compassion.

Then, from Zen Buddhism, when wisdom gets fired up, compassion naturally begins to develop but Zennies need to work a bit on lovingkindness since there is so much "Samurai Zen".

BTW - so's we know's where we're coming from: in Tibetan Buddhism lovingkindness is defined as the wish/attitude for all beings to be happy (boundless lovingkindness) and boundless compassion is defined as the wish/attitude that all beings be free from suffering.

Kirt

[kirtu]

If ones source of compassion is being human or consideration of being human....what then when one dies and is not human anymore. Does thusly the compassion die as well?

We innately have compassion because we have Buddhanature.

Kirt

[Sonrisa]

So for me, stopping and remembering how difficult it is to work with my own mind is a very powerful way to generate understanding, warmth, patience and loving kindness toward others.

BFS, I was just about to same something similar, but you beat me to it

I used to get angry a lot at other people, especially those who have mistreated me, called me unpleasant things, or even people who just talk garbage.

I have learned to see myself in others and others in me. As a practicing Buddhist, I am aware of Karma and its consequences. When I learned to view others as a mirror to look within, it facilitates the process a bit. For example, when I see people acting or saying things in a way which bothers me, instead of getting angry, I ask myself "Do I have those attitudes in me? Do I behave like that? Do I still have some of that hatred within me". I then wish for myself and the other person to be liberated.

When I realized that the root of suffering is ignorance, it is as if I naturally opened my heart out to others.

For example, if I lash out at the person who is making hateful comments, it will be of no benefit engaging in such conduct because it will make me just like that person. In return, I too will become a hateful person and in return, I could be the object of hatred, just like that person maybe to others. Of course, nobody likes to be hated right? Knowing this, I cannot possibly hate the other person in return.

I will be honest, this isnt easy to do but that is why it is the intention that matters. We are not perfect so the least we can do is DO our best. Results come slowly, that is why patience is necessary.

It all begins within. Truly it does.

The sun shines on all people without discrimination. It shines on virtuous people as well as on immoral ones. The morality of others is none of our business. We must focus on our own morality and behaviour. If we point out the other person's faults, we become just like them and no better.

-- Master Kuang Ch'in

[neverdowell]

I get mistreated a lot by "redneck" bullies who have no time to self-reflect, A LOT, so it's a challenge to have loving kindness. I see the ugly, demonic side of people every day. I can have compassion for them by reflecting on just how ignorant they are of what a blessing the Dharma is. But kindness is just too hard to practice with bullies. I am very kind to people who don't mistreat me though.

[ronnewmexico]

I am not speaking necessarily as a buddhist, but to my opinion we are cautioned in many aspects not to be dumbly compassionate. Rebirth as cows to my opinion will be the result of that.

Shakumuni Buddha was born to the warrior cast not to the brahaman class or other class.
We are not posessing of the circumstance of His Holiness the Dali Lama. We cannot expect to react to every personal challenge of sorts, such as bullies, and consider that the proper response is to be overtly expressing compassion, and we are lacking, if we do not respond in this fashion. Unfortunately stupid peoples tend to misinterpret overt compassion with weakness and a source of empowerment to do their stupid things. Part of which may be hurting others if they perceive no resistance to be other than what it is.

So sometimes it is most regretable but we cannot show overt compassion to those such as bullies. It is not best for them nor us nor others quite often.
We simply cannot replicate HHDL's responses to things in his manner as we have not his superior circumstance. With lifetimes of compassionate effect we will have his circumstance and thusly be able to act overtly compassionate at all times.

Till then it is not the proper response to all circumstance.

I myself frequent circles at times of blue collar low incomes where people will...... as I once heard someone who had just been shot by gun in response to my questioning of how this happened, (before it became popular in movie saying).... he told me people will shoot you.... just to see how you look, when you being shot, fall to the ground.

I myself have had to hit people,(though I am generally nonviolent) abeit in a nonvital area, as a warning that other interaction may be more forceful, as recently as three years ago. In such circles, physical violence is mearly another form of communication, and nothing more. I don't hit, and the next communication is much much more violent and possibly deabilitating. Gated communities or places with very good police protection, office environments, some places in cities perhaps(but not others), or perhaps very rural areas....and we can act totally nonviolently and compassionately overtly to all. Such circumstance calls for it.
WE should not fool ourselves that is the circumstance of all, that those in such circumstances are less than us, or that there is a blanket proper overtly compassionate response to all circumstances.

The important thing to prevent negative habitual formation....is how we feel of these people, not how we may have to act to these peoples....that is the critical difference. Never not once, feel noncompassionate, real anger or hatred for such peoples. That is the most important thing to my personal opinion. Fake anger things of that sort have their place at times, and are not noncompassionate actions if they are acted not felt. Depending upon circumstance.

[kirtu]

I get mistreated a lot by "redneck" bullies who have no time to self-reflect, A LOT, so it's a challenge to have loving kindness. I see the ugly, demonic side of people every day. I can have compassion for them by reflecting on just how ignorant they are of what a blessing the Dharma is. But kindness is just too hard to practice with bullies. I am very kind to people who don't mistreat me though.

Keep away from the bullies if you can. If you can't then you need to get some help from the workplace supervisor, teacher, or ultimately from the law.

The bullies are creating negative karma for themselves. Don't follow there example. But those same bullies have been a beloved relative in some former life. The Shin Pure Land Buddhists (and this was picked by by Tendai Buddhists) have a wonderful practice of contemplating that you are in Amida (Amitabha) Buddha's chain of golden love and that you should work to brighten your corner of the world as much as you are able.

Kirt

[Sonrisa]

I get mistreated a lot by "redneck" bullies who have no time to self-reflect, A LOT, so it's a challenge to have loving kindness. I see the ugly, demonic side of people every day. I can have compassion for them by reflecting on just how ignorant they are of what a blessing the Dharma is. But kindness is just too hard to practice with bullies. I am very kind to people who don't mistreat me though.

Keep away from the bullies if you can. If you can't then you need to get some help from the workplace supervisor, teacher, or ultimately from the law.

The bullies are creating negative karma for themselves. Don't follow there example. But those same bullies have been a beloved relative in some former life. The Shin Pure Land Buddhists (and this was picked by by Tendai Buddhists) have a wonderful practice of contemplating that you are in Amida (Amitabha) Buddha's chain of golden love and that you should work to brighten your corner of the world as much as you are able.

Kirt

I once read a teaching that when these things happen to us, it may be because of a negative karmic affinity. I understand it's very hard to show compassion to such people but you should see the situation and use it as a form of self reflection to purify your karma further.

I realize that it's easier said than done. Nor am I claiming that it is easy. I know, it's not easy but it is not impossible.

People who hurt others are not happy themselves. Something might be causing them to do that. If you had inner peace already, why would you go on hurting others?

[ronnewmexico]

I would caution that this in some respects to some peoples is very good advice.."it's very hard to show compassion to such people but you should see the situation and use it as a form of self reflection to purify your karma further."
Showing compassion to some peoples "bullies" is only perceived as weakness. HHDL is never in a situation of being confronted nor hampered by bullies of the personal sort. So we cannot replicate his behavior in a personal sense which that one person is clearly referencing(the personal). If you study his response to the "bulies of China the government" is it tempered with kindness but always is standing up for his peoples and their rights.

That behavior in such a manner with bullies..... seeing the fault in ourselves as opposed to them and use this as a form of self reflection.....the Nazi brown shirts were often local bullies. If we did approach their situation with looking only for fault in ourselves as response and showing only compassion and not opposition to them.....the consequence is called enableing.. The ultimate consequence would be eventually death to millions prematurely and in terror.

In a legal sense that is called victimizing or blaming the victim for the occurance of violence. A standard methodology of defense of rape cases during the 1940's and earlier. She.... by being somewhere or looking a certain way was...asking for it. She should blame herself for the rape and study why she acted that way and how she can act so it doesn't happen again.


Such thing by two example can have heinous result.

Some people really are bullies and rapists, We have karmic fault by being in such a situation perhaps many lives after the cause that effected this present situation but that does not mean our response may be in a manner of only showing of compassion and introspection. Our particular circumstance may call for neither, overt show of compassion nor particular introspection. That we may have to stand up to bullies may indeed be a part of our particular karma when we saw others bullied or ourselves bullied for no reason and stood silent. So we have this effect. WE may of course, respond to bullies in many fashions to include the verbal...the physcial is not always necessary. Standing up may be necessary.

WE are not in HHDL's circumstance.

[ground]

I want to say that the entry to the Sravaka vehicle is the practice of lovingkindness but I don't know that I can point to a statement from my lamas saying that. In fact a very respected Thai Bhikkhu said that one can meditate very deeply on impermanence, suffering or non-self in order to attain Arhatship but this is to develop wisdom. So probably the actual entry to the Sravaka vehicle is renunciation.

Then the entry to the Mahayana is the practice of boundless compassion (lots of teaching on that) and lovingkindness is a prerequisite for compassion.

I think one should be careful here to avoid the misleading over-simplified impression "sravaka = renunciation" and "Mahayana = compassion".
Actually the entry to the Mahayana is bodhicitta. The terms "bodhicitta" and '"boundless" or "great" compassion' should not be mentioned together without stating that the specific characteristic of bodhicitta is a strong altruistic intent. And both, renunciation and "great" compassion are prerequisites for bodhicitta. So renunciation is not a feature of the sravaka vehicle only but is mandatory for bodhicitta and thus mandatory for the Mahayana, too.
And yes, loving kindness actually is a feature of the sravaka vehicle and also compassion/karuna is and loving kindness is also a feature of the Mahayana but only in the sense that it is a wholesome, conducive state of mind. So loving kindness is wholesome and conducive for both, the sravaka vehicle and the Mahayana equally but it is not specific to the Mahayana because only bodhicitta is.

Kind regards