Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:52 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 209 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:29 am
Posts: 45
Location: Thailand
catmoon wrote:
I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.


I second that :)

The forest tradition in Thailand such as that of Ajarn Chah is strict and has good teaching. The city monasteries are quite different.

Graham


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:02 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Posts: 2995
Location: British Columbia
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
catmoon wrote:
I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.


If i'm remembering right actually mentions Ajan Chah and a number of other well known people in Theraveda in some detail, and praises them. His claim is that these people stand out especially because the larger culture is so ineffectual, obsessed with minutiae and negatives, etc.

Like I said I don't know enough to form an opinion really, but IF what he is saying is true, it stands to explain stuff like the photos a bit..maybe.

I guess it just struck me as having some real parallels to how Christianity often functions in the US, turning into the opposite of what it purports to be in some cases.


Your memory is probably better than mine. All I recall is the sizzling condemnation of the monk's practice.

_________________
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:24 pm 
Online
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Posts: 3045
Location: Olympia WA
catmoon wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
catmoon wrote:
I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.


If i'm remembering right actually mentions Ajan Chah and a number of other well known people in Theraveda in some detail, and praises them. His claim is that these people stand out especially because the larger culture is so ineffectual, obsessed with minutiae and negatives, etc.

Like I said I don't know enough to form an opinion really, but IF what he is saying is true, it stands to explain stuff like the photos a bit..maybe.

I guess it just struck me as having some real parallels to how Christianity often functions in the US, turning into the opposite of what it purports to be in some cases.


Your memory is probably better than mine. All I recall is the sizzling condemnation of the monk's practice.


He does go on for an incredibly long time with anecdotes of bad things he saw in Theravdein countries..in fact the book could probably 30 pages or something as opposed to 80 if some of that were streamlined. Way too many redundant stories of bad things. At the end he does give credit to a number of Theravedins, and as far as I can tell he himself still draws most of his inspiration from the Pali canon though, so I did not come away (as a relative neophyte compared to many) with a bad impression of Theraveda as a school of thought by any means.

_________________
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am
Posts: 3044
Buddhism threatening with hell....well, losing compassion can be a kind of hell.

:namaste:

_________________
There is only nature and all is nature. Any discrimination is ones’ own delusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:16 am
Posts: 185
Location: The Middle of Nowhere
muni wrote:
Buddhism threatening with hell....well, losing compassion can be a kind of hell.

:namaste:


:twothumbsup: So can anger and greed.Heaven is compassion,calmness,and moderation while hell is lack of compassion,anger,and greed.

_________________
A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:52 am
Posts: 260
As a Buddhist and an atheist when I look at such Tantric imagery I think of the fact that all 5 poisons are used to construct the Human Realm, and that real life equivalents of all the landscapes from God Realm to Hot Hell exist in the events of the World somewhere all the time. So I don't need a duplication of the 6 realms in an alternate dimension. I get it.

But Buddhism has its own evils. The questionable way the excuse "people of smaller minds need the Dharma explained in terms they can relate to" facilitates selling magical rites for health and wealth rites for instance.

"Saving poor people" by frightening them into "Good karma making behavior" is pretty arrogant an attitude too.

I don't think ranking Views in teaching environments should stretch to "selling" different Views of Dharma by demographic in carrying the Dharma to the World.

Also, the way Buddhists all over the world shrug off child prostitution and those suffering from social evils by saying "it's their Karma, not my business" - Buddhism is millions of people, the 5th largest religion. It's all over the map as to what you will see it do.

On the other hand - hell realm depictions are a kind of entertainment, just like Freddy. Look at Medieval 7 Sin Pageants in Europe! They were live action gore and soft-core porn shows that each ended in a gratuitous "punishment" of the sinner as the crowd roared!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:22 am
Posts: 130
If I am not mistaken there is a sutta or sutra that say a person without good virtue might end up in hell for a small misdeed,can anyone tell me which one is it?.. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm
Posts: 66
GarcherLancelot wrote:
If I am not mistaken there is a sutta or sutra that say a person without good virtue might end up in hell for a small misdeed,can anyone tell me which one is it?.. .


Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt Crystal (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html )


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am
Posts: 933
Ikkyu, It's best not to put any religion on a pedestal. Buddhism and Eastern religion have got a better 'road map' Basically the message is, still your mind! How you do it and your level of concentration and ripeness is at the base of it. Some seekers try to find solitude in the mind and 'find themselves' others think they are doing something different and want silence to 'lose themselves'....whatever it's best just to keep quiet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:22 am
Posts: 130
Ok,so what are the ways one can end up in hell?Other than having bad karma in this lifetime.. .I heard the final thoughts before dying is also important.. .?.. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:23 am
Posts: 245
Let's face it. The hells of which the Buddha speaks are suffering to the max. But the source of suffering comes from seeking delight in the five skandhas, the psycho-physical organism, consisting of material shape, feeling, perception, habitual tendencies, and consciousness. This is why the Buddha taught escape from the pscyho-physical organism (S. iii. 29) and by, implication, escape from the hells.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:22 am
Posts: 130
And theres another one.. . if not mistaken where a monk after he passed away complain about being in heaven,and woke up back to his original body.. . and say he prefer to save people from hell or something?.. .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:12 am
Posts: 27
The OP is a little confusing, to me.

First of all "Buddhism" is not a monolithic bloc. It differs greatly from tradition to tradition, country to country, institution to institution. Thus one's mileage may vary when it comes to what "Buddhism" is "about", based on these differences to say nothing of the points that individuals choose to focus on. One video cannot be seen as being representative of "Buddhism" as a whole, or even Theravada or Thai Buddhism. Thus the question being asked here strikes me as misplaced.

That said, based on my experience I would say Buddhism is not about threatening people with anything. It's about cause and effect. Actions (karma) have consequences (karma vipaka). Truly understanding this, and using this understanding to cut off the root of suffering, is what Buddhism is "about". Everything else is just window dressing.

_________________
All compound phenomena are like a dream;
a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightning
That is how to meditate on them
That is how to observe them


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:23 am
Posts: 245
Here is something for a Buddhist chaplin.

Quote:
“When a warrior exerts himself in battle, his mind is already debased and misdirected by the thought: 'May these men be slaughtered, annihilated, destroyed.' If others slay him while he is exerting himself in battle, after death, he will be reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle” (Samyutta Nikaya XLII, 3).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 1782
Quote:
I thought Buddhism wasn't about threatening people with Hell


Since buddhism is religion and religion is about hope and fear your assumption was not correct though "buddhism threatening people" is misleading wording since people are craving for hope and therefore are inevitably fear mongering . :sage:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:50 pm
Posts: 371
GarcherLancelot wrote:
Ok,so what are the ways one can end up in hell?Other than having bad karma in this lifetime.. .I heard the final thoughts before dying is also important.. .?.. .


You just answered your own question beautifully, you are just not grasping what the buddha meant by dying. You are constantly dying and becoming from moment to moment, if you doubt this look at your baby pictures is that really you?

but not the thoughts before dying the thought singular.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:28 pm
Posts: 7
Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 2:46 pm
Posts: 1
The Way wrote:
Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.


Also gonna gravedig here a little bit, and possibly be a little off topic, but I spoke with my Shingon teacher (who is an ordained lama) and he said that the concept of hell/the narakas in Buddhism is completely false, at least within Shingon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12737
Mort432 wrote:
The Way wrote:
Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.


Also gonna gravedig here a little bit, and possibly be a little off topic, but I spoke with my Shingon teacher (who is an ordained lama) and he said that the concept of hell/the narakas in Buddhism is completely false, at least within Shingon.



The Buddha definitely taught the hell realms. You can read about them in the Sutta Nipatta, etc.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 2196
One of the epithets for Buddhahood is "The Great Fearlessness".

The point being that at the end of Path there is no fear, but obviously at the beginning there is. Since fear is such an strong operating principal in the spiritually immature, the enlightened use it to move the unawareness of the student towards awareness. It is seen as the thing that will motivate the immature to take action. Later in the teachings, both historically and personally, that emphasis on fear changes towards love, because for the spiritually mature love then becomes the effective operating principal. Ultimately at the end of the Path fear completely disappears and all that is left is love. (Or so I've heard.)

_________________
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 209 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pemachophel and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group