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the great rebirth debate - Page 122 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:31 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:37 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

PeterB
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby PeterB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:36 pm

There is at least one model of the 4NT's and punabhava including that whole description of death and the passing away of the body with each breath which would sit comfortably within a one lifetime schemata...( actually there are many )
See Ajahn Buddhadasa...

Anyone is of course free to reject( after due consideration ) that model. Just as anyone is free to reject ( after due consideration ) the Three Lifetimes model.

Its no skin off my nose. I really have no preference which model anyone else chooses.
Both can be argued from the Suttas. Take your pick.

:anjali:

santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:48 pm

Rebirth is so important that if removed, other core dhamma concepts will not hold:
Imagine if rebirth was removed from the Dhamma grand equation:
1. No Samsara: no need to break this wheel, it never exists!!
2. No 4 Fruits: ex: no Stream-Enterer (defined as: rebirth up to seven more times as a human or in a heaven); no Arhant (everyone would automatically become an "arhant" at the end of their life)
3. No 12 links of DO: Becoming (Bhava) was gone; Vinnana wouldn't give rise to Namarupa.
4. Severely "waterdowned" Kamma: it couldn't be applied to the case of child prodigies or extreme mishaps to newborns; with past life and future life gone, Kamma's scope is down to 1/3: the present life only;You're born rich or poor, smart or dumb, beautiful or ugly, prestigious or low, ...all due to chance, not Kamma.
5. No 4 NT: see Alex's detail description above.

Not much of an equation left, is it!!

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Lazy_eye
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:04 pm


santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:27 pm


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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:27 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Lazy_eye
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:29 pm


santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:34 pm

I gave you an answer. You did not listen.

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Lazy_eye
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:39 pm

LOL. Nice try.

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby daverupa » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:40 pm


santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 pm

Daverupa wrote:
Who said anything about removing it?

Just try to stress the importance of rebirth. Why?

santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:54 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:52 pm

Hi Chownah

You may be right. :anjali:

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

chownah
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby chownah » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:59 am


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Ben
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:21 am

av letgo.jpg
av letgo.jpg (2.92 KiB) Viewed 1944 times
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Zom
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Zom » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:01 am


chownah
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby chownah » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:30 pm

Zom,
"Having no attachment to right views makes you like a boat without a rudder "
This sounds good....have you detached yourself from right views and thus verified this through direct experience? Seems like one can have things without being attached to them...so perhaps one could have right view without being attached to it...I guess...I don't know....
chownah

santa100
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby santa100 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:08 pm

Sure...only AFTER one has reached the other shore..

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby daverupa » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:18 pm



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