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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:27 pm 
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In short: it would be great if someone could tell me the meaning of this:

न चि एइ लमक न चि एइ लमक
दिओ नजिअ कालक्र न एइ नै

Context: I use a Buddhist mantra called the "Vajrasattva 100 Syllable Mantra", with a Sanskrit transliteration by a friend of mine:

Oṃ, vajrasattva samayam anu-pālaya. Vajrasattva tvenupa-diṣṭa dṛḍho me bhava. Su-tuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava. Sarva siddhiṃ me pra-yaccha. Sarva karma suca me citta-śrīyaḥ kuru. Hūṃ ha ha ha ha hoḥ, bhagavan sarva tathāgata vajra mame muñca vajri bhava mahā-samaya-sattva āḥ.

I know his Sanskrit is good, so his transliterations are normally of good quality. However, with this version I noticed that the phrase "anu-rakto me bhava" comes before "supuṣyo me bhava", whereas in all other versions I see on the Internet it is the other way around.

I asked someone else about this. He replied with the Devanagari sentences, the meaning of which I cannot yet work out. So any help would be very much appreciated!

Kaji

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Kaji wrote:
Oṃ, vajrasattva samayam anu-pālaya. Vajrasattva tvenupa-diṣṭa dṛḍho me bhava. Su-tuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava. Sarva siddhiṃ me pra-yaccha. Sarva karma suca me citta-śrīyaḥ kuru. Hūṃ ha ha ha ha hoḥ, bhagavan sarva tathāgata vajra mame muñca vajri bhava mahā-samaya-sattva āḥ.

I know his Sanskrit is good, so his transliterations are normally of good quality. However, with this version I noticed that the phrase "anu-rakto me bhava" comes before "supuṣyo me bhava", whereas in all other versions I see on the Internet it is the other way around.



Actually there are different versions of the Vajrasattva mantra mostly based on the order of anu-rakto me bhava (before or after supusyo me bhava) akthough this is not the only differentiation.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:46 am 
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kirtu wrote:
Actually there are different versions of the Vajrasattva mantra mostly based on the order of anu-rakto me bhava (before or after supusyo me bhava) akthough this is not the only differentiation.

Kirt

Yes, my quest is to try finding out which version should I use.

I had a go transliterating the Devanagari sentences:

na ci ēi lamaka na ci ēi lamaka
diō najia kālakra na ēi nai

Now I suspect "kālakra" might actually be "Kalacakra".

With my attempt using an online Sanskrit dictionary, this is the best English translation I have come up with by myself so far:

Gallant with no hatred and greed, gallant with no hatred and greed,
You shall accumulate your own time-wheel without vesselling greed.

Comments? Suggestions?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Kaji wrote:
Yes, my quest is to try finding out which version should I use.

The version that you received from your Guru. If you didn't receive any, you shouldn't use either one.

Quote:
With my attempt using an online Sanskrit dictionary, this is the best English translation I have come up with by myself so far:

Gallant with no hatred and greed, gallant with no hatred and greed,
You shall accumulate your own time-wheel without vesselling greed.



Not really. This doesn't look like Sanskrit.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:31 pm 
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ratna wrote:
Kaji wrote:
Yes, my quest is to try finding out which version should I use.

The version that you received from your Guru. If you didn't receive any, you shouldn't use either one.


Vajrasattva is regarded as the ultimate origin of tantra and the basic Vajrasattva mantra is open. So actually the order of anurakto me bhava /suphokaya me bhava doesn't really matter.

Kaji - the transliteration of the Vajrasattva mantra you gave in your OP is perfectly fine. However while the mantra is open you do need instruction on the mantra. This is a purification mantra and although open to some extent it still requires some teaching. When rereading your OP it isn't clear that you have a Vajrayana teacher and ratna is correct that you need one.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Mantras that are open are those from the Sutras, AFAIK Vajrasattva's mantra requires at least the lung.

The order of both of the arrangements of the two lines is OK because both are attested in the Tantras.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:53 am 
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kirtu wrote:
ratna wrote:
Kaji wrote:
Yes, my quest is to try finding out which version should I use.

The version that you received from your Guru. If you didn't receive any, you shouldn't use either one.

Vajrasattva is regarded as the ultimate origin of tantra and the basic Vajrasattva mantra is open. So actually the order of anurakto me bhava /suphokaya me bhava doesn't really matter.

Kaji - the transliteration of the Vajrasattva mantra you gave in your OP is perfectly fine. However while the mantra is open you do need instruction on the mantra. This is a purification mantra and although open to some extent it still requires some teaching. When rereading your OP it isn't clear that you have a Vajrayana teacher and ratna is correct that you need one.

Kirt

My understanding is the same, that the Vajrasattva 100 Syllables Mantra is open. Coming from a Chinese Buddhist background, I know for a fact that in Chinese Mahayana this mantra is openly practised.

Recently I have been receiving Dharma teachings from a Geshe of the Gelug tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. He taught us a purification method using the Vajrasattva 100 Syllables Mantra with visualisations. He said that no lineage transmission is required as long as you do not visualise yourself being the deity. (The visualisations he taught involved having Vajrasattva at the top of your head.)

However, this teacher did not provide us with a version of the mantra. Hence I used the Sanskrit transliteration by a Buddhist whom I personally know is very meticulous with his mantra transliterations. However, I have yet to hear from him about the order of the two sentences.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Kaji wrote:
Recently I have been receiving Dharma teachings from a Geshe of the Gelug tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. He taught us a purification method using the Vajrasattva 100 Syllables Mantra with visualisations. He said that no lineage transmission is required as long as you do not visualise yourself being the deity. (The visualisations he taught involved having Vajrasattva at the top of your head.)

However, this teacher did not provide us with a version of the mantra. Hence I used the Sanskrit transliteration by a Buddhist whom I personally know is very meticulous with his mantra transliterations. However, I have yet to hear from him about the order of the two sentences.


The visualization you mentioned is the standard visualization across all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism (although even that has some slight differences from lineage to lineage). If you can go back and ask the geshe for the Vajrasattva mantra you should use however in the Geluk tradition the standard order seems to be: Su-tuṣyo me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava and has ah hung phey at the end.

The version with Su-tuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava is the standard Sakya order but there are two versions of the Vajrasattva mantra in Sakya and I always have to pay attention to the order in the common Vajrasattva mantra because actually the common Vajrasattva mantra is not the the one usually recited. This order ( Su-tuṣyo ... anu-rakto ... supuṣyo) can also be found in Nyingma sadhana although the more typical order is Su-tuṣyo ... supuṣyo ... anu-rakto) with just ah at the end.

However Vajrasattva is the same purification Buddha and the same mind shrine and you will have the same blessings no matter the order of the su-tusyo ... supusyo ...anu-rakto .... Yje Sanskrit is a prayer to be blessed by Vajrasattva, to become totally pure, to receive his siddhis and to become just like him in every way. The practice operates on the power of the shrine (the visualized Vajrasattva being nondual with the real Vajrasattva), the power of regret (regretting all the downfalls one has created), the power of the antidote (resolving to not repeat the downfalls) and the power of restoration (faith that the meditation has purified oneself)..

Taken from the Ewam Choden note on this point:
Quote:
Vajrasattva sitting on top of one’s head is the power of shrine: the power of the deity on whom one depends. Through him one can be purified. Producing a mind which strongly regrets all sins previously accumulated is the power of regret, of overpowering. The thought of never performing sinful actions again, from this time forth, even at the cost of one’s life, is the power of the antidote. Strongly believing that this meditation will completely purify one’s mental and physical obscurations is the power of restoration.


Kirt

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:00 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
The visualization you mentioned is the standard visualization across all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism (although even that has some slight differences from lineage to lineage). If you can go back and ask the geshe for the Vajrasattva mantra you should use however in the Geluk tradition the standard order seems to be: Su-tuṣyo me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava and has ah hung phey at the end.

Regarding the "ah hung phey", this is what I have learned (from http://www.visiblemantra.org/vajrasattva.html):
Quote:
The basic mantra ends with āḥ. Hūṃ and phaṭ are traditionally added under specific circumstances - hūṃ when the mantra is recited for the benefit of someone dead, and the phaṭ when the mantra is recited to subdue demons.

I take it that hung = hūṃ, phey = phaṭ?

kirtu wrote:
The version with Su-tuṣyo me bhava, anu-rakto me bhava, supuṣyo me bhava is the standard Sakya order but there are two versions of the Vajrasattva mantra in Sakya and I always have to pay attention to the order in the common Vajrasattva mantra because actually the common Vajrasattva mantra is not the the one usually recited. This order ( Su-tuṣyo ... anu-rakto ... supuṣyo) can also be found in Nyingma sadhana although the more typical order is Su-tuṣyo ... supuṣyo ... anu-rakto) with just ah at the end.

When you wrote "Sakya order" did you mean the Sakya Trizin?

kirtu wrote:
However Vajrasattva is the same purification Buddha and the same mind shrine and you will have the same blessings no matter the order of the su-tusyo ... supusyo ...anu-rakto .... Yje Sanskrit is a prayer to be blessed by Vajrasattva, to become totally pure, to receive his siddhis and to become just like him in every way. The practice operates on the power of the shrine (the visualized Vajrasattva being nondual with the real Vajrasattva), the power of regret (regretting all the downfalls one has created), the power of the antidote (resolving to not repeat the downfalls) and the power of restoration (faith that the meditation has purified oneself)..

Taken from the Ewam Choden note on this point:
Quote:
Vajrasattva sitting on top of one’s head is the power of shrine: the power of the deity on whom one depends. Through him one can be purified. Producing a mind which strongly regrets all sins previously accumulated is the power of regret, of overpowering. The thought of never performing sinful actions again, from this time forth, even at the cost of one’s life, is the power of the antidote. Strongly believing that this meditation will completely purify one’s mental and physical obscurations is the power of restoration.


Kirt

Thank you for your informative answer on the order of the phrases!

Your phrase "to become like just like him[i.e., Vajrasattva] in every way" struck a chord with me. Since my practice of the 100 Syllable Mantra for purification and reading about Vajrasattva, I discovered that I probably have a fair bit of affinity with him. I didn't realise this in the past. The two main Buddhist practices I had already chosen were the Casket Seal Dharani and contemplation of buddha. According to the sutras these two practices are practised and upheld respectively by the two bodhisattvas Vajrapāṇi and Mahāsthāmaprāpta. Both are, as I've recently found out, the same deity as Vajrasattva.

As a side note, with the story of Vajrapāṇi Bodhisattva and the Shaolin martial monks, this may possibly be a linkage with my passion and practice in martial arts too.

I wonder where I can read more about Vajrasattva, so that I can learn to be more like him. Suggestions welcomed!

Kirtu, does this name of yours have any relation with Vimalakirtu?

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