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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:55 am 
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Eugene, Oregon is now home to a new center of Buddhist teachings. They bought the local Unitarian Church when the Unitarians moved to a bigger place. This is a place that HH Dudjom Rinpoche taught and gave empowerment long ago. Great new Website... thought you might be interested.

http://www.saraha.org/

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:02 am 
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This must be the first center in the west directly under the guidance of the current
Dudom Rinpoche-- Dudjom Yangsi Sangye Pema Zhepa-- and established to be
his center.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 am 
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Perhaps this is off topic but I am curious as to which strand of Nyingma is most well-established in the West. Would people say it is the Dudjom tradition, the Longchen Nyingthik etc...

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In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:08 am 
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Our affiliated center, Pema Osel Ling, is under Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche, too. But it is up to Chatral Rinpoche when Rinpoche will come for the first time. He's had a throne waiting for him for some years.

As for which Nyingma terma lineage is strongest, it's hard to say because the West is a big place. I think every center in the U.S. does some Dudjom practice, because Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche was everybody's teacher. But I think only Pema Osel Ling and the East Coast Yeshe Nyingpo centers are "all Dudjom all the time." There are two major centers that are Palyul, one center that is Chokling, but most are a mix of the traditions practiced by their teacher.

Ultimately, the heart of all Nyingma centers is the view of Dzogchen and the practice of ngondro and the three inner tantras. Since terma traditions are mostly from Guru Rinpoche, we are all disciples of the Lotus Born, and the practice path he presents in the various terms traditions is remarkably uniform.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:08 am 
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JKhedrup wrote:
Perhaps this is off topic but I am curious as to which strand of Nyingma is most well-established in the West. Would people say it is the Dudjom tradition, the Longchen Nyingthik etc...


Think we have to wait a century or so before answering that question fully but there certainly seems to be a lot of Longchen Nyingthik and Dudjom Tersar but there is also a multitude of other traditions spreading in both Europe and America.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:55 pm 
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heart wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
Perhaps this is off topic but I am curious as to which strand of Nyingma is most well-established in the West. Would people say it is the Dudjom tradition, the Longchen Nyingthik etc...


Think we have to wait a century or so before answering that question fully but there certainly seems to be a lot of Longchen Nyingthik and Dudjom Tersar but there is also a multitude of other traditions spreading in both Europe and America.

/magnus



Lineages may appear to be strong when they aren't really. For example, there are a few of the pujas of the Dudjom Tersar, such as Putri Rekphung (Vajrakilaya) and the short and medium length Throma, that are widely performed in the East and in the West. But most of the Tersar--especially the completion stage practices--are only practiced by a tiny group of people in the whole world. That is why the three year retreat facilities in Bhutan, Nepal and here at our center in California are critical. The lineage looks from the outside that it is doing very well, but many aspects are very thin. We need real more real yogins who patiently persist in practice. Don't have the idea that somewhere else people are doing it, so we don't need to. We need people to do serious long term practice and retreat.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Yudron wrote:
heart wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
Perhaps this is off topic but I am curious as to which strand of Nyingma is most well-established in the West. Would people say it is the Dudjom tradition, the Longchen Nyingthik etc...


Think we have to wait a century or so before answering that question fully but there certainly seems to be a lot of Longchen Nyingthik and Dudjom Tersar but there is also a multitude of other traditions spreading in both Europe and America.

/magnus



Lineages may appear to be strong when they aren't really. For example, there are a few of the pujas of the Dudjom Tersar, such as Putri Rekphung (Vajrakilaya) and the short and medium length Throma, that are widely performed in the East and in the West. But most of the Tersar--especially the completion stage practices--are only practiced by a tiny group of people in the whole world. That is why the three year retreat facilities in Bhutan, Nepal and here at our center in California are critical. The lineage looks from the outside that it is doing very well, but many aspects are very thin. We need real more real yogins who patiently persist in practice. Don't have the idea that somewhere else people are doing it, so we don't need to. We need people to do serious long term practice and retreat.


I fully agree with this Yudron. The whole tradition of Vajrayana is hanging on a thin thread right now.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:42 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Our affiliated center, Pema Osel Ling, is under Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche, too. But it is up to Chatral Rinpoche when Rinpoche will come for the first time. He's had a throne waiting for him for some years.



Homage to the great grandfather guru Kyabje Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche! May he live for countless more centuries.

I can not fathom his Wisdom Mind.

But I have heard that he discouraged Dudjom Rinpoche from visiting and living in the West(Can others confirm this?). But the great Terton had his own Wisdom Mind. As did/do his Wisdom Sons, Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Dungse Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche. We are so fortunate, so graced by their compassion that they dwell/ed here in the muck with us.

I have some small fear that if it is soley up to Chatral Rinpoche, we may be waiting for quite some time to receive the Yangsi here. I am guessing(hoping?) that the karmic connection with us barbarians may be overpowering though.

Until then, these days it is not so hard to get to Nepal, we just need to pay attention to when the Yangsi is passing through.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:58 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Our affiliated center, Pema Osel Ling, is under Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche, too. But it is up to Chatral Rinpoche when Rinpoche will come for the first time. He's had a throne waiting for him for some years.



Homage to the great grandfather guru Kyabje Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche! May he live for countless more centuries.

I can not fathom his Wisdom Mind.

But I have heard that he discouraged Dudjom Rinpoche from visiting and living in the West(Can others confirm this?). But the great Terton had his own Wisdom Mind. As did/do his Wisdom Sons, Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Dungse Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche. We are so fortunate, so graced by their compassion that they dwell/ed here in the muck with us.

I have some small fear that if it is soley up to Chatral Rinpoche, we may be waiting for quite some time to receive the Yangsi here. I am guessing(hoping?) that the karmic connection with us barbarians may be overpowering though.

Until then, these days it is not so hard to get to Nepal, we just need to pay attention to when the Yangsi is passing through.


It truly is solely up to Chatral Rinpoche, he is the Yangsi's guru. Remember, though, that Chatral Rinpoche specifically sent his Sangyum to come to the U.S. within the last few months... so anything can happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:00 am 
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Yudron wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
Yudron wrote:
Our affiliated center, Pema Osel Ling, is under Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche, too. But it is up to Chatral Rinpoche when Rinpoche will come for the first time. He's had a throne waiting for him for some years.



Homage to the great grandfather guru Kyabje Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche! May he live for countless more centuries.

I can not fathom his Wisdom Mind.

But I have heard that he discouraged Dudjom Rinpoche from visiting and living in the West(Can others confirm this?). But the great Terton had his own Wisdom Mind. As did/do his Wisdom Sons, Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Dungse Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche. We are so fortunate, so graced by their compassion that they dwell/ed here in the muck with us.

I have some small fear that if it is soley up to Chatral Rinpoche, we may be waiting for quite some time to receive the Yangsi here. I am guessing(hoping?) that the karmic connection with us barbarians may be overpowering though.

Until then, these days it is not so hard to get to Nepal, we just need to pay attention to when the Yangsi is passing through.


It truly is solely up to Chatral Rinpoche, he is the Yangsi's guru. Remember, though, that Chatral Rinpoche specifically sent his Sangyum to come to the U.S. within the last few months... so anything can happen.


Yeah, word up!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:17 am 
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Yudron wrote:
That is why the three year retreat facilities in Bhutan, Nepal and here at our center in California are critical.

Where exactly are these facilities for three year Nyingma retreats?
:namaste: R.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:46 am 
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Yudron wrote:
heart wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
Perhaps this is off topic but I am curious as to which strand of Nyingma is most well-established in the West. Would people say it is the Dudjom tradition, the Longchen Nyingthik etc...


Think we have to wait a century or so before answering that question fully but there certainly seems to be a lot of Longchen Nyingthik and Dudjom Tersar but there is also a multitude of other traditions spreading in both Europe and America.

/magnus



Lineages may appear to be strong when they aren't really. For example, there are a few of the pujas of the Dudjom Tersar, such as Putri Rekphung (Vajrakilaya) and the short and medium length Throma, that are widely performed in the East and in the West. But most of the Tersar--especially the completion stage practices--are only practiced by a tiny group of people in the whole world. That is why the three year retreat facilities in Bhutan, Nepal and here at our center in California are critical. The lineage looks from the outside that it is doing very well, but many aspects are very thin. We need real more real yogins who patiently persist in practice. Don't have the idea that somewhere else people are doing it, so we don't need to. We need people to do serious long term practice and retreat.


It seems that some termas like Dudjom Tersar have a special connection with beings at this time. But a lot of what flourishes has to do with those who practice and get the results. I know of one very good western practitioner who was so inspired by a terma cycle he received he translated all the sadhanas in that cycle (under consultation) and did all the practices. One of the lineage lamas was so impressed he thought there may be a possibility that terma may flourish; which is still a sit, wait and see preposition.

Even within certain sanghas, I know of some groups who have been given one special practice as a local sangha as that is there connection, so it is wait and see again. And they are not to share that with other chapters of their sangha. They keep that practice to themselves.

In one of the 3yr in France, one was discouraged from doing ngon.dros from older termas and people could choose from more recent termas, sometimes lesser known, as the retreat master said that if no one practices the recent termas they would die out quickly.

So I think it's a matter of the practitioners rather than the termas, as to who gets the results, as they are all manifest from the wisdom mind of Padmasambhava for beings of certain times and dispositions.

IMHO I think each practitioner should find the path that suits them, it doesn't matter how broadly it is practised, and at the same time rejoice in the diversity of terma paths their fellow yogins and yoginis practice. It would be great to see so many flourishing.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:29 am 
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So here's a question - which of the terma cycles are in the most severe danger of dying out?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:38 am 
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aparajita wrote:
So here's a question - which of the terma cycles are in the most severe danger of dying out?


Chatral Rinpoche has said some will die out when he goes.

Nothing in the big collections like the Rinchen Terdzod will die out, but some of the old collected works of specific tertons of old may have no one assigned to propagate them by giving the lungs and wangs, much less having people interested in practicing them in depth.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Are there ever prophecies about how long certain termas will remain efficacious?

Do older termas have a period where the blessings are not seen as strong due to the passing of time and so the practice of newer ones is more beneficial?

Sorry for my neophyte questions, just beginning to explore this topic of termas a little bit.

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In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:22 pm 
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JKhedrup wrote:
Do older termas have a period where the blessings are not seen as strong due to the passing of time and so the practice of newer ones is more beneficial?

Sorry for my neophyte questions, just beginning to explore this topic of termas a little bit.




Hi J Khedrup, yes this is the case and it is considered from the perspective of samaya. Over time, as more and more people are given transmissions into a particular terma cycle and this continues through some generations it is considered somewhat inevitable that there will be some people who break samaya significantly and don't repair it. This then degenerates the efficacy of the terma, as the entire mandala of practitioners and Gurus are intertwined by samaya.

This is the very reason why Guru Rinpoche, through his vast kindness, concealed termas specifically for different ages. The fresher a terma is, the less likely it is that there have been significant samaya corruptions that weaken it's vitality. Of course, different individuals will also have more karmic proclivities to particular practices or termas too so this is also a consideration when choosing a terma lineage.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:41 pm 
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In terms of termas being practiced nowadays, which one has been around the longest? (ie, revealed the furthest back in history)

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In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:30 pm 
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I realized I made it sound like this samaya issue is the only reason why Guru Rinpoche concealed termas for different ages but this is misleading. It is an important one, but he also intended specific termas for specific ages due to the particular circumstances of the beings of those ages and what practice cycles would be of most benefit to them, among other reasons. . .

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:57 am 
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I would count the Northern treasures of Rigdzin Godem as being among the oldest.

Certainly Nyang Ral Nyima Oser's termas, especially Kagye Deshek Dupa.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:18 am 
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Raksha wrote:
Yudron wrote:
That is why the three year retreat facilities in Bhutan, Nepal and here at our center in California are critical.

Where exactly are these facilities for three year Nyingma retreats?
:namaste: R.


Other people may know about more Dudjom Druptras, but the one's I know about are Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's retreat center in Bhutan--I assume Tiger's Tail in Paro, one of the lamas at the Dudjom Gompa in Boudha has a bunch of young people is long term retreat in apartments right in town as I understand it, I don't know if it is for three years or not, and Dungse Thinley Norbu RInpoche and Lama Tharchin Rinpoche's center is in the coastal mountains of California. We don't say exactly where at the lama's request--please don't post it if you know.

Chatral Rinpoche's retreat centers, for example in Helambu (sp?) have specialized in different cycles, such as Dudjom Tersar or Longchen Nyingthig or Sera Khandro, at different times. Tulku Pema Wangyal's druptra in France includes some Dudjom practices in its program.

Also, I've heard that at the Sakya Monastery in Kham, at which Dola Tulku (one of Dudjom Rinpoche's sons) was one of the main tulkus, the three year retreat center is Dudjom Tersar. Unusual, huh? Dudjom Yangsi Sangye Pema Shepa is a son of Dola Tulku.

I've never left the U.S., so others may know a lot more than I.

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