Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby tktru » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:03 am

I was digging through E-Sangha files and rummaged through the archives of what remains of the Shingon forum. Unfortunately, not much is left. However, I found a thread that might be interesting for those who would want to know the differences between these two traditions, and perhaps get discussion sparking again.

Thus I have read ( :tongue: ), the question was posed by the user "Shadow Dancer" in January 2007:

Hello. I remember when I was looking at information on Vajrayana Buddhism and Tibetian Buddhism that Shingon was the other major school of Vajrayana. Out of curiosity in what ways in this tradition similar to Tibetian Buddhism and different? Also is the book Bardol Thodol of interest (I don't mean on an individual level) to Shingon Buddhists? Or is it viewed as something purely for Tibetian Buddhists?


The Rev. Eijo responds:


Hmm. Since the East Asian esoteric Buddhist traditon is older than the Tibetan, I consider Tibetan Vajrayāna the "other" form. Just kidding, I know what you mean :)

Setting aside the issue of whether or not it is appropriate to call Shingon "Vajrayāna,", and not really knowing the level that you are asking your question at, the basic differences might be summed up as:

1. There is no anuttarayoga-tantra in Shingon, and none of the practices and iconography associated with it. Shingon has what corresponds to the kriyā, caryā, and yoga tantras only. Shingon practices no form of "sexual yoga" at all.

2. The system mentioned above of classifiying tantras into four categories is not used in Shingon. Instead, in Shingon tantras are classified into zōmitsu 雑密 and junmitsu 純. Zōmitsu practices have mundane goals, like practices praying for blessings, health, the prosperity of the nation, good harvests, rain making, the ability to memorize Buddhsit texts and so on. Junmitsu practices are for perfecting the Mahāyāna bodhisattva path. Both exist in Shingon, with junmitsu being the main practice and zōmitsu existing as a form of skillful means.

3. Shingon lacks Tibetan cultural influences, and has instead East Asian cultural influences.

4. Japan had no significant awareness of even the existence of Tibetan Vajrayāna until the 19th century. Since the Bardo Thodol was composed in Tibet, it is utterly unknown to the East Asian tradition. It was first known of in Japan from the Japanese translation of Evan-Wentz's English translation.

5. Not really part of Vajrayāna, but since we are comparing the Shingon and Tibetan traditions, I might note that Shingon doctrinally does not give the most emphasis to Mādhyamika thought. Traditional Shingon doctrinal studies involve a number of areas, including Yogācāra and Mādhyamika in their East Asian forms, called Sanron/Sanlun 三論 and Hossō/Faxiang 法相. To go out on a limb, Shingon thought is perhaps closest to Kegon/Huayan 華嚴 thought. Its practice is not that of Huayan, however; it is tantric practice. Deity yoga is the core practice of Shingon.

There are many details about practice which are different between the two, but with many major features being generally the same. If you can be a little more specific about what you wanted to know, I might be able to answer in more detail.
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby plwk » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:37 am

Thanks tktru...I had wanted to raise this topic but feared it would become like another ES-styled discussion...look forward to contributions from you and Rev Eijo
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Mr. G » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:03 pm

I hope to hear any of Rev. Eijo's additional thoughts as well.
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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby tomamundsen » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:30 am

Does Shingon have anything similar to Dzogchen and/or Mahamudra?
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Simon E. » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:37 pm

Mr. G wrote:I hope to hear any of Rev. Eijo's additional thoughts as well.


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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Nilasarasvati » Mon May 20, 2013 2:37 am

Fourthed! I have always wanted to know about all of this! Shingon's lineage of transmission is also of huge interest although I've studied it a little already. I'm wondering with burning curiousity about the similarities between these schools.

In China, esoteric Buddhism also had it's own lineages and still exists in some form, but in terms of feudal patronage, I'm only aware of Chinese emperors (esp. Qing dynasty) patronizing and inviting Dalai Lamas and other Tibetan Lamas to Beijing and elsewhere.
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Jikan » Wed May 22, 2013 1:20 pm

Nilasarasvati wrote:In China, esoteric Buddhism also had it's own lineages and still exists in some form,


This one's debatable. To the best of my knowledge, esoteric Buddhism in China as it exists now is a result of Chinese practitioners training in Japanese schools, or Tibetan ones. Does anyone have evidence of an intact transmission of esoteric Buddhism strictly within China's borders?
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby Astus » Wed May 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Jikan wrote:Does anyone have evidence of an intact transmission of esoteric Buddhism strictly within China's borders?


Depends on how you define "esoteric Buddhism". If as an independent school, it's probably never existed. If as certain practices, there are quite a few that are part of the yearly and even daily ceremonies in Buddhist monasteries.
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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby coldwater » Wed May 22, 2013 3:12 pm

Hi!

@Astus, same came to mind...
When I think of Chinese esoteric Buddhism things like the Yogacara Flaming Mouth, 1000 Hands and Eyes, Shurangama/White Umbrella, 10 morning mantras, Meng Shan, Water and Land. Most likely other mantras, mudras and rituals are there as well. It isn't so cut and clear like Japanese sects.

Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism-
My understanding is....The Indian teachers who brought Vajrayana to China were both Northern and Southern India (plus some Sri Lankan influences?) while Tibet received it's introduction through Padmasambhava (North Indian/Pakistan). China earlier than Tibet and Japan/Tibet approximately at the same time. Then later developments and cross-pollinating. Even in Shingon and Tendai folks went back to China to receive further training in esoteric Buddhism and develop their sect. So cross overs like the Bardo texts aren't there but there are different sets of practices followed around the 49-day cycle in Chinese Buddhism and Japanese Buddhism.

To me it seems like finding parallels in Tibetan and Japanese Buddhism could be like looking at Christian denominations - like the Greek Orthodox and American Southern Baptists?

Here is an older thread that discuss esoteric Buddhism in China~
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2228&start=0

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Re: Shingon and Tibetan Buddhism

Postby lobster » Sun May 26, 2013 2:50 am

My early Buddhist practice was from Shingon sources and involved a five element practice. As a concentration and balancing exercise I still do it occasionally.

For those interested what recommended resources exist?
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