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the great vegetarian debate - Page 72 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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robertk
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby robertk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:01 am

General Siha was a sotapanna and could never even knowlingly kill a mosquito . Yet he had no hesitation to buy meat to make a meal: that is because being a sotapanna he had no wrong view and couldn't imagine that somehow he made the meat he bought die . Meat is not alive, it is not an animal, and it is not breaking the precept to buy it or eat it.

morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:15 am

Alan, from what I found out there only 10 to 35 percent of our meals should be protein. At the present trend , many are getting too much protein from eating too much animal meat. Consuming too much protein, you are taking in more calories and fat than your body needs. If we look around, it is obvious that many are consuming more protein than their bodies require. Therefore it is a good idea to reduce the amount of protein intake from animal meat.

We can see that over half ( 63% ) of all Americans are either overweight or obese, and these can have a negative impact on their health. From a health perspective, reducing the amount of protein intake from animal meat can contribute to improving this issue. This is just one of the bonus benefit that can come from reducing meat intake.
with metta,

morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:20 am

with metta,

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robertk
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby robertk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:01 am


morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:05 am

I am not saying it is wrong or bad kamma to eat meat. According to the teaching, it is only the ones engaging or ordering the killing that has to deal with the effects of the kamma.

About the sutta, I just checked. He took refuge in the Buddha at the end of the discussion. There is no mention of him being a stream enterer at the end of the discussion.
with metta,

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robertk
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby robertk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:44 am

Last edited by robertk on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:49 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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daverupa
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby daverupa » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:21 pm


morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:04 pm

with metta,

morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:12 pm

I am not saying that buying meat is wrong or give the buyer bad kamma, or effect one's practice in anyway, so this is a matter of personal choice. But do you think the choice of eating meat by a large number of people would support the killing and selling of meat in anyway.

Note: I am not referring to monastics because they don't possess money. They obtain food from alms round and accepting whatever is given without like or dislike.
with metta,

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Dan74
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:58 pm

I've posted this elsewhere but again I think this is a very thorough, thoughtful and balanced treatment of the topic. For anyone sincerely interested and open-minded, I strongly recommend reading it and mulling it over:

(by Ajahn Jagaro "Buddhism and Vegetarianism")

_/|\_

rowyourboat
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:31 pm

Hi all,

The purpose of Buddhist practice is not to avoid all bad karma - that would ultimately require eventual suicide. Ie what Jains aspire for (as far as I understand it). We must overcome good and bad karma, not get hung up on the karma issue but go forth unreservedly towards nibbana!

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Dan74
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:43 pm

_/|\_

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:08 pm

Several previous topics on vegetarianism have now been united in this one big thread. It is now almost as big as the great rebirth thread!
Image




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cooran
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby cooran » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:07 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Nicro
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Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Nicro » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:30 pm

I don't understand how this is a big deal at all.

Cessation
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Abstain from eating raw fish

Postby Cessation » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:27 pm

So yesterday I was eating sushi and after I remember that I might have read somewhere that Buddha advised the Bhikkhu's from eating raw fish, snakes, and other stuff. I don't remember where I read it from , I think it was a translation of the Vinyana. Anyway, I was wandering why did he tell them to abstain from eating raw fish? Should lay-disciples abstain from eating raw fish as well? Thanks in advance for your answers and advice.

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Dan74
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Well it is a big deal in the sense that the issues involved are close to many people's hearts and there is naturally a lot of identification going on with one's sense of what is right etc.

Many of us empathize with animals in a deep way. Some feel that abstaining from eating animals is a moral imperative, others that it is a personal choice.

One thing is pretty clear I would've thought - the way animals get treated in our "enlightened" times leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least. This is probably the crux of the matter - it's hard to stay all cool and composed when so much suffering is involved.

That said, I am not vegetarian - I've been staying with my in-laws in Europe for the past month and insisting on a vegetarian diet would be unfair and offensive to them. When at home I cook and eat veggies but I lapse sometimes when eating out, so no moral high ground by any stretch of imagination here!
_/|\_

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cooran
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Re: Abstain from eating raw fish

Postby cooran » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:44 pm

Hello cessation, all,

These references to the Vinaya (Bhikkhus rules) might be of use:

88. "There are approximately 26 references to the eating of meat by bhikkhus and bhikkhuniis (and 4 to meat-broth), 10 of these are in reference to the five kinds of staple food (bhojana). Many of these references are quite incidental, for example, a chief minister offers each of 1250 bhikkhus a bowl of meat (Vin.I,222), a bhikkhu steals a bowlful of meat during a famine (Vin.III,59) and bhikkhus eat the remains of a lion's kill (Vin.III,80). One of these references concerns the Buddha's refusal to forbid the eating of fish and meat as proposed by the schismatic Bhikkhu Devadatta (Vin.II,197; III,172). The Buddha rather reiterated his position that fish and meat were pure if not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed for a bhikkhu. It thus seems certain that meat-eating was common in the Buddha's time and only later, with the growth of the Mahayana schools, became prohibited.

89.
This exception was made when the newly converted (from the Jains) General Siha ordered that a meal for the Lord Buddha and his monks be prepared for the next day with meat from the market. The Jains then started to shout and complain all over town in an attempt to discredit the Buddha.
The bhikkhu should also not eat raw or undercooked meat, or the flesh of elephants, horses, dogs, snakes, lions, tigers, leopards, bears, hyenas or, of course, human flesh.

90.
"The flesh of animals which have been slaughtered to sell as meat for the people, however, is called 'flesh which exists already.' [It] has been slaughtered for their meat to be used for food by one person or by a group of people, apart from fellow Dhamma friends, or specially for the butcher himself... If people cook such meat and offer it to a bhikkhu, [it] will not be an offence to accept and eat it." (EV,II,pp.131-133)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#fn-88

with metta

edit: Reference to other traditions vinaya removed from quote.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Saijun
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:28 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Saijun » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:53 pm

Hello friends,

Given that I may have a slightly different philosophical outlook from the rest of you, here is my take:

I do not eat meat if I am cooking/buying food for myself only (for Dhammic/Dharmic reasons as well as a lack of support for factory farming methods). However, if my wife (or other family member) makes a meat dish, I accept and eat gratefully. After all, killing the generosity of another is still killing.

So, I suppose I'm what would be called a "pragmatic flexitarian."

Metta and Anjali,

Saijun


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