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the great vegetarian debate - Page 71 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sekha
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sekha » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:26 pm

Last edited by Sekha on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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daverupa
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby daverupa » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:19 pm


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Adrien
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Adrien » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:38 pm

This is a difficult question, as there is no equivalent in the agamas : so this could totally be one thing the theravada sect added to its canon (as one could reasonably think that the sarvastivada sect added some things in their suttas, as, for example, the fact that the past and the future actually do exist). But it could also be the sarvastivada who took it out from their canon. Is there a way to know... ?
Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

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David N. Snyder
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:57 pm

To Eat Meat or Not to Eat Meat

Bhante Dhammika's little booklet gives all the points from both sides.

Unfortunately, it won't be settled once and for all. That is because there are many passages suggesting no killing, causing to kill, ordering another to kill, approving of another's killing, etc., like the Sutta in the OP. But then there are also others, such as the Amagandha Sutta and others that suggest meat eating is acceptable.

So in the end, each of us must decide.

The fact that there are endless debates about this issue here and in other forums, shows that it will never be "settled" but we can each decide what is best. The endless debates are okay though, as long as the conversations remain civil and to the points and without personal attacks, which for the most part has been the case here and in other forums.

Bhante Dhammika's conclusion after being on both sides of the issue: “Many people find that as they develop in the Dhamma that they have a natural tendency to move toward vegetarianism.” (Good Question, Good Answer, 4th edition)
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ground
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby ground » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:53 pm


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wahooyeeha
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby wahooyeeha » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:19 pm

I've heard talks by Bhante Gunaratana and Thanissaro Bhiku were they point back to intent. Specifically regarding the first precept, if your intention is to eat, then eating meat isn't a problem. With that said, there are other modern concerns that might influence someone. Bhante G is (mostly) vegetarian, he says, out of compassion. He won't turn down meat offered by lay followers, but all the food they prepare at the Bhavana Society is vegetarian. For me, learning about the horrific impact of factory farming on people, animals and environment make a strong case not to eat at least factory farmed meat. Then there's your own peace of mind. If eating a steak puts ripples of regret or angst in your mind, then you probably shouldn't eat it as those thoughts are counterproductive to skillful mind states.

-wy

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Kim OHara
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:39 pm

How many pro- and con- veggie threads does it take to change a mind?
Seriously, we have been over the same arguments many many times and the conclusion is that there is no compelling argument in either direction.
I think there's a case to be made for rolling them all into one, calling it 'The Great Vegetarianism Debate', and seeing if it lasts as long (97 pages and counting, last time I looked) as 'The Great Rebirth Debate.'

:namaste:
Kim

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daverupa
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby daverupa » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:57 pm


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retrofuturist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:41 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Sekha
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sekha » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:42 pm

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Sekha
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sekha » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:20 am

Seriously, I don't see any way in which the argument expounded above could be rightly refuted. To me it does settle the matter once and for all.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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manas
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:01 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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robertk
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby robertk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:12 am

Yep, that's what the Jains said about general Siha.

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David N. Snyder
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:23 am

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morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:46 am

Last edited by morning mist on Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
with metta,

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manas
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:49 am

Last edited by manas on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:30 am

with metta,

alan
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:31 am

From a health perspective, the answer is obviously no.
From the perspective of the suttas, the answer is no.

Beware of ideologies--they can lead you astray.

morning mist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:34 am

with metta,

alan
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:42 am

The information is out there; I'll leave it up to you to do the research. Speaking as a former veg.


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