Climate Change: We're Doomed

Alleviating worldly suffering along the way.

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby greentara » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Huseng, 'live a simple lifestyle. Don't consume much. Eat vegetarian etc.' Of course all that makes sense. Reminds me of the story of Chris McCandless, an idealistic man who gave all his money to Oxfam, apparently a large sum. He came from a prosperous family and dropped out. He was living in retreat, in silence in a derelict bus. He was trying to live off the land in extreme terrain. He believed in 'Tolstoyan' ascetcism and renunciation and lived like that for months before he starved to death. The story is both uplifting and awfully sad. The mind says if he would have acted differently, he might have survived. The same story line goes on in our own drama ...if only I would have done this, at that juncture it would have turned out differently. Our own personal problems or looming global problems....one still is left with the problem of trying to still the mind. If only we could live with the certainty 'whatever happens, let it happen, its ok.'
greentara
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Simon E. » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:18 pm

Much too much meatiness in my case...when I said bigger I meant simply in terms of height.. :(
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:58 pm

Getting back to the topic ...
Renewable energy growth -
http://www.scribd.com/doc/114384379/Climate-Commission-Renewable-Australia-report

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby pueraeternus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:59 am

Here's a sobering article from Der Spiegel about the Doha summit:

US Disappoints at Doha Climate Talks
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:54 am

A recent Scientific American blog post http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/2012/11/08/the-energy-opportunity-in-wasted-heat/ said ...
For every one unit of energy that is converted into electricity in power plants today, two units of energy are thrown away. This wasted energy is primarily in the form of heat – or thermal energy – and, there is technology available today that can turn this waste into a usable energy stream.

Combined Heat and Power (CHP) is a technology that combines power generation and usable heat capture equipment to increase the overall efficiency of the power plant … the majority of electricity generated in the United States comes from power plants fueled by fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and oil). These plants run with an efficiency in the ballpark of 33%. The remaining 67% is mostly released into the environment in the form of heat. In CHP facilities, the bulk of this heat is recovered and used, leading to real-world efficiencies of more than 75%. Some CHP facilities in the United States have documented overall efficiencies of more than 87%.


We already have the technology to dramatically reduce US energy consumption with no adverse impact on productivity or standard of living, simply by eliminating waste. As with solar and wind energy, we don't need new miracle technologies so much as rapid deployment of the technologies that we already have.

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:05 am

pueraeternus wrote:Here's a sobering article from Der Spiegel about the Doha summit:

US Disappoints at Doha Climate Talks

Yes, very disappointing - but still not the end of the world.
What I find particularly annoying is that the US, in spite of its world-leadership rhetoric, is in so many ways a third-world country. It shows up again in the last paragraph of that article:
Nevertheless, US public opinion regarding climate change has also proven to be flexible, changing almost as often as the weather itself. After significant snowfall in the winter of 2010, only about half of all Americans believed that global warming even existed, according to surveys. After the hot month of June 2012, which brought with it the worst drought since 1956, a survey conducted by the University of Texas suddenly found that 70 percent of Americans believed in global warming. Whether it was caused by humans was not even a question that was posed.

This is gross scientific illiteracy, as is the widespread American rejection of the theory of evolution. It might be expected from the citizens of Belize or Guiana or even Iran, but the US? :rolleye:

Anyway, let's all hope the latest foot-dragging is due mainly to poor timing (the Doha talks being caught between Hurricane Sandy, the presidential election and the fiscal cliff can't have helped) and encourage the US government to do better next time.

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Simon E. » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:26 am

Kim O Hara..can I ask you something ? My question has no agenda btw other than the fact that is often helpful to know where someone is coming from in order to discuss their pov in an informed way, and looking at your profile and Forum Activity does not help in that direction.
Are you a Buddhist practitioner ? Do you follow any school of Dharma ? Do you have a teacher ?
Please don't feel any obligation to answer if you are uncomfortable with the questions.


:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:21 am

Simon E. wrote:Kim O Hara..can I ask you something ? My question has no agenda btw other than the fact that is often helpful to know where someone is coming from in order to discuss their pov in an informed way, and looking at your profile and Forum Activity does not help in that direction.
Are you a Buddhist practitioner ? Do you follow any school of Dharma ? Do you have a teacher ?
Please don't feel any obligation to answer if you are uncomfortable with the questions.
:namaste:

Hi, Simon,
I have no discomfort about answering but it's not straightforward. Got a moment? Okay ...
I have been hanging around Dhamma Wheel for several years (and the long-departed e-Sangha before that) and sitting with a meditation group in the vajrayana tradition for about as long. I think my natural affiliation is the Theravada but there is no Theravada group within any reasonable distance of my home.
Further back, and a long way further back, I was involved with TM and other traditions (Zen, Taoism) before taking time out to raise a family.
Sometimes I think I'm a Buddhist with rationalist leanings, other times it's the other way round. Maybe you can tell me?

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Simon E. » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:33 am

Me ? No, I cant tell you. :anjali:
I think its often suffering .... individual, social, planetary, that turn our thoughts to things Dharmic.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby pueraeternus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:57 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:This is gross scientific illiteracy, as is the widespread American rejection of the theory of evolution. It might be expected from the citizens of Belize or Guiana or even Iran, but the US? :rolleye:

Anyway, let's all hope the latest foot-dragging is due mainly to poor timing (the Doha talks being caught between Hurricane Sandy, the presidential election and the fiscal cliff can't have helped) and encourage the US government to do better next time.


It brings to my mind what Tocqueville had to say about America:

The position of the Americans is therefore quite exceptional, and it may be believed that no democratic people will ever be placed in a similar one. Their strictly Puritanical origin, their exclusively commercial habits, even the country they inhabit, which seems to divert their minds from the pursuit of science, literature, and the arts, the proximity of Europe, which allows them to neglect these pursuits without relapsing into barbarism, a thousand special causes, of which I have only been able to point out the most important, have singularly concurred to fix the mind of the American upon purely practical objects. His passions, his wants, his education, and everything about him seem to unite in drawing the native of the United States earthward; his religion alone bids him turn, from time to time, a transient and distracted glance to heaven. Let us cease, then, to view all democratic nations under the example of the American people, and attempt to survey them at length with their own features.


There are still many wonderful things about America, but there are many signs that points to the inexorable slide towards a form of totalitarian regime, which people willingly live in a gilded cage.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 am

pueraeternus wrote:There are still many wonderful things about America, but there are many signs that points to the inexorable slide towards a form of totalitarian regime, which people willingly live in a gilded cage.[emphasis added]

Another brilliant bit of miserablism!!!!
:twothumbsup: :woohoo: :twothumbsup:
... or should that be
:crazy: ?
Does your attitude make you happy? Does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens?

:meditate:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Indrajala » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:53 am

pueraeternus wrote:There are still many wonderful things about America, but there are many signs that points to the inexorable slide towards a form of totalitarian regime, which people willingly live in a gilded cage.


Yes ... the legal framework and physical apparatus for heavy policing is in place for a reason.

Actually this is logical because as a society experiences stress as a result of sustained energy shortages it invests in policing and legitimization, which curtail the symptoms for a time but add additional long-term stress as said activities demand energy as well.

The elites know what is coming and they are covering their bases. We would do the same in their shoes.
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog)
Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog)
Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog)
Dharma Depository (Site)

"Hui gives me no assistance. There is nothing that I say in which he does not delight." -Confucius
User avatar
Indrajala
 
Posts: 5966
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Japan

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:43 am

Huseng wrote:
pueraeternus wrote:There are still many wonderful things about America, but there are many signs that points to the inexorable slide towards a form of totalitarian regime, which people willingly live in a gilded cage.


Yes ... the legal framework and physical apparatus for heavy policing is in place for a reason.

Actually this is logical because as a society experiences stress as a result of sustained energy shortages it invests in policing and legitimization, which curtail the symptoms for a time but add additional long-term stress as said activities demand energy as well.

The elites know what is coming and they are covering their bases. We would do the same in their shoes.

Hey! I can quote myself!!
:stirthepot:
Another brilliant bit of miserablism!!!!
:twothumbsup: :woohoo: :twothumbsup:
... or should that be
:crazy: ?
Does your attitude make you happy? Does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens?

:meditate:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Indrajala » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:11 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:Does your attitude make you happy? Does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens?

:meditate:
Kim


It makes me feel compassion for the immeasurable suffering beings and their horrific karma.

Being naive to reality is self-defeating.
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog)
Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog)
Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog)
Dharma Depository (Site)

"Hui gives me no assistance. There is nothing that I say in which he does not delight." -Confucius
User avatar
Indrajala
 
Posts: 5966
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Japan

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:19 pm

Huseng wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:Does your attitude make you happy? Does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens?

:meditate:
Kim


It makes me feel compassion for the immeasurable suffering beings and their horrific karma.

But does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens? If you just sit on your hands "feeling compassionate", you are doing nothing to alleviate their suffering. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of Bodhisattva vows ... oops! I think think I've just done that. Never mind, it can't do any harm.

Huseng wrote:Being naive to reality is self-defeating.

Umm ... "being naive" is actually seeing without preconceptions. I think that is generally a good thing but I don't think it is what you intended to say.
I think you probably meant "Being blind to reality," in which case your statement would be generally true.
But if you see yourself as one of the lucky people who sees "the truth" or "reality", I really have to doubt you. I would (truly) be happy to learn that I have misunderstood your position but from what I've seen here, you are only able to see half of "the truth" or "reality" - precisely the half which accords with your doom-and-gloom, almost apocalyptic, vision of the world. You're not alone - pueraeternus and Nemo are pretty good at it too - but I don't think it's good for you and I am quite sure it doesn't correspond with seeing things the way they are.
With metta,

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby pueraeternus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:11 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
pueraeternus wrote:There are still many wonderful things about America, but there are many signs that points to the inexorable slide towards a form of totalitarian regime, which people willingly live in a gilded cage.[emphasis added]

Another brilliant bit of miserablism!!!!
:twothumbsup: :woohoo: :twothumbsup:


Miserablism, you say?




Kim O'Hara wrote:Does your attitude make you happy? Does it encourage you to be a better person, kind to little old ladies and kittens?


Actually it does, especially to kittens.

I think it is important to clear understanding of the current state of the world at large, in order for genuine compassion to arise. Otherwise, the compassion may end up being naive, incomplete or contrived. A clear idea of what is going on is also the first step in finding appropriate solutions to problems.

You can also see this as part of bodhisattva training. The bodhisattva does not rely on rose-tinted vision, but sees the nature of samsara and its general and specific causes of suffering exactly. Hence both wisdom and compassion are stirred in equal parts.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Gautama » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:02 pm

The world will still stand,as it is. If we cant respect the planet so be it.
User avatar
Gautama
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:41 pm

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby pueraeternus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:40 pm

Huseng wrote:Yes ... the legal framework and physical apparatus for heavy policing is in place for a reason.

Actually this is logical because as a society experiences stress as a result of sustained energy shortages it invests in policing and legitimization, which curtail the symptoms for a time but add additional long-term stress as said activities demand energy as well.

The elites know what is coming and they are covering their bases. We would do the same in their shoes.


Submission and surrender of rights in exchange for protection and comfort (even if it will be short-term). Oh well.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Ukigumo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:Another brilliant bit of miserablism!!!!


The fact that you consider Huseng's views to be "miserable" or "gloomy" does not make them incorrect. I haven't seen anything you've posted here that really challenges the facts as he's laid them out; all you've done is characterize them as being depressing, and offer us "hope" that isn't based in reality. Did the 18 previous climate change conferences also fail to produce results because of "bad timing"?

Before an addict can begin the process of recovery they have to admit that they're an addict. This often means confronting some very depressing, miserable, gloomy truths. It is resistance to these truths, because they are so depressing, that keeps the addict in the throes of their addiction. And it is failing to recognize that climate change and resource depletion represent inextricable predicaments that will make dealing with their effects much more difficult.

Speaking for myself, I am young enough that I will probably have to live through these effects (we are, of course, already in the midst of the early stages). I can't afford the false optimism and groundless hope of an earlier generation - a generation that has consistently failed to face reality. I am very grateful to Huseng for bringing these issues up and for addressing them from a Buddhist perspective. I would rather hear a harsh truth than a comforting lie.

:anjali:
All compound phenomena are like a dream;
a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightning
That is how to meditate on them
That is how to observe them
User avatar
Ukigumo
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:12 am

Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby greentara » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:14 am

From the ultimate position:
"Whatever you perceive is your phenomena, when you have purified your karmic vision and become a buddha, then from your point of view, where are the other sentient beings?" Meanwhile........."Neoliberalism is not the root of the problem: it is the ideology used, often retrospectively, to justify a global grab of power, public assets and natural resources by an unrestrained elite. But the problem cannot be tackled until the doctrine is challenged by effective political alternatives.



In other words, the struggle against climate change - and all the crises that now beset both human beings and the natural world - cannot be won without a wider political fight: a democratic mobilisation against plutocracy. This should start with an effort to reform election campaign finance - the means by which corporations and the very rich buy policies and politicians"
greentara
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am

PreviousNext

Return to Engaged Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

>