Accepting Attachments/Household Life

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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:49 pm

StuartM wrote:
freefromsamsara wrote:It is the duty and responsibility of those unenlightened ones who wish to remain in samsara to suffer for the enlightened ones who wish to remove themselves from samsara.


What a horrible spiritual vision.


Almost the opposite of the Bodhisattva ideal.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:31 am

freefromsamsara wrote:... for it is the relationships with your closest loved ones, family, spouse and children which pulls one back into samsara - the cycle of rebirth and death.
No it is not, it is the ATTACHMENT to the relationships which pull one back into samsara. This attachment can also exist in regards to spiritual friends.
"Ethical" or "Moral" conduct has nothing to do with realization of consciousness.
It 100% does, especially at the start of ones path. Without ethical or moral conduct you will not have personal peace of mind and your environment will not be conducive to practice (since everybody will be out to kick your ass). Here I am assuming that by the word "consciousness" you mean an enlightened mind state.
It is the duty and responsibility of those unenlightened ones who wish to remain in samsara to suffer for the enlightened ones who wish to remove themselves from samsara.
This is just ridiculous. What is your source for this statement? Your teacher told you this nonsense? Samsaric beings (and that includes you, since you are a samsaric being) are not in samsara out of any type of duty, they are in samsara due to their ignorance and their actions (karma). Enlightened beings take vows to empty samsara of all sentient beings so that not even one is suffering, they do not take a vow to let beings suffer so that they can achieve liberation.

See here for the text of, and a commentary on, the Bodhisattvacharyavatara by Shantideva http://www.kunpal.com/
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby JKhedrup » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:47 am

If ethical conduct was not important why did Lord Buddha propose the Three Higher Trainings in Ethics, Concentration and Wisdom?

Without ethics we engage in behaviour that leaves disturbing imprints and images in our mindstream. This makes the development of concentration very difficult. Without concentration it is impossible to have the single-pointedness necessary in meditation to produce the realizations necessary for enlightenment.
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
-Sakya Pandita
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby muni » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:13 pm

A teaching by H H Dalai Lama, Thupten Jinpa...regarding ethics and attachments right now in daily life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p776tJ8DUc

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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby freefromsamsara » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:29 am

ethics is nothing more than a manifestation of a dual mind

what is good? what is evil? are they not concepts conjured up by a dual mind?

in the eyes of a truly enlightened mind, nothing is truly good or evil...
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby StuartM » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:11 pm

freefromsamsara wrote:ethics is nothing more than a manifestation of a dual mind

what is good? what is evil? are they not concepts conjured up by a dual mind?

in the eyes of a truly enlightened mind, nothing is truly good or evil...


Without ethics, we'll never realise our true nature.
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby floating_abu » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:45 pm

freefromsamsara wrote:ethics is nothing more than a manifestation of a dual mind

what is good? what is evil? are they not concepts conjured up by a dual mind?

in the eyes of a truly enlightened mind, nothing is truly good or evil...


I watched a movie called "Anonymous" the other time and in this mythical story it showed a context where writing was considered sinful and lowly - the Shakespeare character had to hide himself because he was doing the work of devilry. I found that interesting. In some ages/societies sex is banned except under certain conditions, in some societies today same-sex sex is looked down upon, legalised, or illegal depending on where you sit. In ancient China as I understand it, a woman should not even reveal her bare arm or leg yet today mini shorts abound. People who were deemed to have affairs were taken, witch hunt style, down to the river to be drowned.Today we would call the witch hunt folk the criminals whereas in those days they were just the good, ethical people shouting down the 'sins' of the adulterers.

Yes the reality is ethics unfolds and it is contextual to a large degree, although a society enmeshed in that is unlikely to see through those veils - because well it is always harder to see when you are within the mesh.

It brings up a polar question though which is does this mean we can do anything we want and it doesn't matter? And the answer is of course not - of course there is a context and a connotation and an implication/ramification to all that we do.

Likewise, a human being if they are reasonable and open and closer to their Buddha nature-nature they have the tools and natural instinct to judge. For example your child falls, sometimes it is OK to let them fall and hurt a bit to learn and sometimes care and warmth is required. In other cases, you can scold your child or a teacher can teach their students a lesson - the student is hurt or the child is angry/bitter, but if the heart is clear/warm/compassionate, then there is a natural basis to know what is so...of course it takes a lot of attention, awareness, reflection: but these things are possible. On the outside, can you tell?

And whilst rule books and the like can claim certain boundaries, the situation of humans is far more complex. Generally though in Buddhism we have precepts and those precepts are general guidelines in which to keep humans morally grounded whilst they uncover and realise their true nature - which is one of the ultimate goals in Buddhism as far as I know.

So I would say that to speculate on what is an enlightened mind is or does is probably not so fruitful, but if the layers of conditioning are unfolded, it is a better state IMO and I would agree that some care is warranted in this field of ethics.

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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby Ukigumo » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:48 am

freefromsamsara wrote:ethics is nothing more than a manifestation of a dual mind

what is good? what is evil? are they not concepts conjured up by a dual mind?

in the eyes of a truly enlightened mind, nothing is truly good or evil...


What a bunch of nihilism. It makes for a good fascist ideology, though. I guess it was a bunch of enlightened Buddhas who carried out the experiments in Unit 731?
All compound phenomena are like a dream;
a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightning
That is how to meditate on them
That is how to observe them
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Re: Accepting Attachments/Household Life

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:00 am

freefromsamsara wrote:ethics is nothing more than a manifestation of a dual mind

what is good? what is evil? are they not concepts conjured up by a dual mind?

in the eyes of a truly enlightened mind, nothing is truly good or evil...


Buddhism is not moral relativism.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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